1841 LOOK UP PLEASE. Eliza(beth) HANCOCK CLARK(E)

[MudgeeClarke]

Searching for the death record of Eliza HANCOCK or Eliza CLARK(E) especially in the period 1832-1841 in or around Cambridge, UK. Possibly the wife of a John CLARKE, and mother of Richard CLARKE.

An Eliza HANCOCK CLARKE was the mother of my Brickwall, Richard CLARKE. I am not certain she was married to John CLARKE, so I am looking for Eliza HANCOCK or Eliza CLARKE.

Although my GGF, Richard CLARKE, in Nov 1856 when sailing for Australia recorded that Eliza was 'dead', my present 'best suspect' for Richard CLARKE is a Richard aged 10, who was in the 1841 Census for North Witchford Workhouse in Cambridgeshire and so it is possible that Eliza HANCOCK CLARKE was from that general location just north of Cambridge, IF they were the same family, and she had died before 1841.

Of course, she may have died up to 1856. http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

In any event, I'm starting with 1832-1841.

Thanks in advance.

Colin

 

[pejay]

Ther are 2 deaths on free BMD which may be the right ones???

dec qr 1839 Elizabeth Clarke North Witchford 14 76
" " Elizabeth Clarke North Witchford 14 75
or
dec qr 1843 Elizabeth Clarke N Witchford 14 90

unfortunately there is no way of knowing how old they were and to get both for 1839 would be £14, and they could be the wrong ones!

 

[benny1982]

Hi

If you think Richard was in the workhouse in 1841, then it is possible that the 1839 death is likely. But the 1843 one is also possible as Elizabeth could have been ill, ie with TB or something and couldnt look after him.

Ben

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Thank you, Pejay and Benny. I'm prepared to 'gamble' my $$$, starting with the 1839s and if necessary the 1843. I'm fully aware this may well be another of my roadblocks ...

Question: Is there somewhere online I can do this with plastic, and get ALL the information, or do I have to send to UK for it?

I'm ready ....

Colin

:biggrin:

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Colin,

This is another good site to look through England Genealogy.

http://www.genealogylinks.net/uk/england/index.html

You will need to order the certificate from the UK. The link below is to the
Registration Service. Certificates cost £7.00 each, you will need, vol number, page no, district, year, name and what 1/4 is was registered in and of course your plastic and also you will need to register with them.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Thanks, Julie:

I'm on it.

Colin

 

[benny1982]

Hi Colin

I hope one of the certs comes up trumps for you. This should also give whether she was widowed and it should give who her late hubby was proving that she was widowed.

Ben

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Hello All:

If you see the previous posts, you will know that after good advice from juliejtp, pejay, and others, I 'pulled the trigger' and ordered all three death certificates for Elizabeth Clarke in North Witchford.

I got them today by snail mail.

Two are for very old women (relatively) although either could be related to my CLARKE. I guess that will have to wait.

First, Elizabeth CLARKE, d. Nov 5th, 1839, Chatteris, 75, pauper, Visitation of God, William Pratt (Coroner) Informant.

Second, Elizabeth CLARKE, d. Oct 25th, 1839, Chatteris, 85, Labourer, Old Age, Mary Abbott in attendance Chatteris.

(I hope this information above is also handy for someone else.)

And maybe an INTERESTING one.

No. 232. Nov 5th, 1843, Union Doddington, Elizabeth CLARKE, Female, 26 years (through *** and Age columns a large X is scratched), Pauper in Union, Abcess 2 months, (informant) Isacc Kirtely?? Kistely?? Master, Doddington.

The Age and Date are good matches although this would put Elizabeth at ~ 17 years when Richard was born ~1832.

Can I have some comments please on this last Elizabeth.
What does Union Doddington imply, if anything?
Does the large X signify anything?
Could Pauper in Union mean that she was in the North Witchford Workhouse where this Richard CLARKE was recorded 1841 aged 10?

If I imagined that this Elizabeth was worth following, what is the next logical step? Where married if married? If she was 26 at death in 1843, she was born ~1817 somewhere probably close by - and hopefully as Elizabeth Hancock??

I know I will get some good advice from this great site and my fellow historians.

Cheers,

Colin (ever hopeful bumbler)

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Colin,

Sorry but this is a spanner amongst the works. I've had a look on the 1851 census and there is still a Richard Clarke as inmate age 26, born Chatteris. Civil parish Doddington, reg district North witchford.

There are two contenders now.

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Hmmm!

A couple of thoughts, Julie.

First. If he was "10" in 1841, can he be "26" in 1851? I've read that somehow the census takers worked magic with the ages.

Second. "My" Richard actually sailed for Australia Nov 1856, so I guess he could have been still at the workhouse in 1851. He was reportedly 25 when he sailed - which would only have him as 20 in 1851. Could the 6 be a 0? 26=20?

What do you think?

And a question. IF this is THE Richard, do you know if they would have been able to "work on the railways" (as my Richard has written) whilst they were in the Workhouse. Were they allowed to do that?.

I'm not trying to clutch at straws here, but I want to exhaust this Richard and this Elizabeth ...

Thanks for the quick reply. (Don't you ever sleep ...)

Colin

 

[juliejtp]

The 1851 census image does say 26 it could the 1841 thats not correct as ages where round to the nearest 5 not sure if its up and down (this still confuses me), but thought it was for 21 and over that this was done for!.

Having another look for the other Richard with Sarah Ann Pooley, no luck with what happened to her, but did find a Henry Pooley in 1861 born Ilford Essex he may be a brother, he's in the workhouse in 1871.

I'm awake when I should be asleep and asleep when I should be awake.



Julie

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Thanks, Julie.

Hmmm. The age thing ... if the "workhouse Richard" was not ~10 but ~16 in 1841, therefore ~26 in 1851, this lad in the North Witchford Workhouse would not be my GGF Richard aged ~25 who sailed for Australia in 1856.

Drats.

Turning to the other Richard CLARKE aged ~19 at the house of Sarah Anne POOLEY in Cambridge in 1851, there is still a possibility I suppose that this was my GGF. I don't know where this Richard was from, or where he was in 1861 (nor Sarah Anne for that matter). Obviously if the Elizabeth CLARKE who d.1843 was the mother of THIS particular Richard (and not the "workhouse Richard", he would have been ~10 or ~11 when she died, and so ~19 in 1851.

I guess to try to associate this Richard and Sarah as related in some way, would be a long shot search for a POOLEY-CLARKE marriage somewhere that would then have a family reason for this Richard lodging at the POOLEY house. They don't HAVE to be related - if this Richard was "working on the railways" I guess he was earning enough to be a lodger anyway.

Hence my frustration since 1979!!!! Thinking about it gives me a headache. :'(

On, on.

Maybe another family historian who reads this post will give me a fresh insight and point me in another direction. (hint, hint, anyone)

Cheers,

Colin

 

[juliejtp]

The funny thing there is a Richard Clark(e) on the 1861 census born abt 1831 Cambridgeshire occ Ry labourer living in Sussex!also the Richard in 1851 born Bulbourn as cannot find a place in Cambridgeshire with this probaly should be Fulbourn.

 

[pejay]

Hi I checked the 1841 census again, and Richards age is 10.Children's ages were supposed to be acurate, but then I guess you had to know your age! a lot of people didn't and had to make a guess, but I couldn't find an Eliza/Elizabeth in the workhouse in 1841 - perhaps she was admitted there when she became terminal?.Th death cert you have for 1843 is indeed the workhouse, and Isaac Kirkby was master there on the 1841 census, Whether this is your Eliza/Elizabeth or not I do not know but it may be worth following, it may come to a dead end - but hey think of the pleasure & satisfaction if you get a hit, Do you have the web address for workhouses? I'm not sure about their jobs. I seem to think they continued their work, and if they didn't have any they were put to work in the workhouse. I find some of these old certs fascinating - the causes of death, what is a visitation from God? I thought nobody died of old age either! but I have some srange ones too. Good luck with your quest.

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Onwards and upwards!

Thanks, Julie, again. GGF Richard 'definitely' sailed to Moreton Bay (then NSW) in November 1856 ('definitely' because of so many subsequent matching dates in Australia) so the rly lab in Sussex, although very tempting is most likely not him (although a good match).

The Fulbourn Richard could link up with a widow/mother Clarke in 1851 in Fulbourn that I have seen.

From what Pejay has noted, I am still very curious about the workhouse 'pair'. So now we know 'for sure' that the Elizabeth Clarke died at the workhouse in 1843 given that the informant was the Workhouse Master - the same workhouse where this Richard of uncertain age is recorded.

I will look through the website for the workhouse again - this is one where records are not complete (of course!). (It's like finding a treasure map and the area with the X has been chewed by a rat.) :2fun:

Somehow, this unclaimed Elizabeth and this unclaimed Richard seem to hold promise, but I need Dr. Who and the Tardis right now.

Yes, Pejay, 'old age' and 'visitation from God' are neat. 'Abcess' is grim. I guess I'd prefer my 'visitation' to be from God rather than the alternative we hear about.... >

Thanks, all. But don't stop now. We're on a roll.

Colin