1871/1881/1891 Census Lookup

[Charlie Elliott]

I'm trying to find out about my great-great-great-grandparents.

The information I have is that my great-great-grandfather Thomas Elliott was born. 1865 in Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales. He moved to Cardiff at some point, as that is where he and his 7 kids are in the 1911 census, and the oldest kid who is 19, was born in Cardiff. He was a railway engine driver at the time of the 1911 census.

He married Alice (Unknown) around 1891, who is from Lambeth, London.

Any information on Thomas Elliott's whereabouts and parents, would be greatly appreciated. I'm only 16, so it is near enough impossible for me to pay for census sites.

Charlie Elliott

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
welcome to the club
1901
ELLIOTT, Thomas Head Married M 37 1864 Railway Engine Driver Swansea Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Alice Wife Married F 36 1865 Lambeth London
ELLIOTT, Eveline Daughter Single F 9 1892 Cardiff Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Samuel Son Single M 8 1893 Cardiff Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Milly Daughter Single F 3 1898 Cardiff Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Alice Daughter Single F 1 1900 Cardiff Glamorganshire

RG number: RG13
Piece: 4975
Folio: 121
Page: 51

Registration District: Cardiff
Sub District: East Cardiff
Enumeration District: 32
Ecclesiastical Parish: Roath St Saviours

Civil Parish: Roath Municipal Borough:
Address: 164, Railway Street, Roath
County: Glamorganshire

dave

 

[Robesur]

In 1891 he is at 19 Diamond Street, Roath, Cardiff
Thomas Elliott, 26, Railway Engine Fitter, Swansea Glam.
Alice L Elliott, 25, Wife, Lambeth, London
A probable marriage is in Cardiff, March Quarter 1891, Volume 11a, Page 521, Thomas Elliott/Alice Louisa Clarke
I haven't yet found him on earlier census.

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
1891
ELLIOTT, Thomas Head Married M 26 1865 Railway Engine Fireman Swansea
Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Alice 'S' (I think it is an L) Wife Married F 25 1866 Lambeth London

RG number: RG12
Piece: 4388
Folio:32
Page:56

Registration District: Cardiff
Sub District: Cardiff
Enumeration District: 10
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Germans

Civil Parish: Roath
Municipal Borough: Cardiff
Address: 18, Diamond Street, Roath, Cardiff
County:Glamorganshire

MARRIAGE Thomas Elliott to Alice Louisa Clarke - J/M 1891 Cardiff ref 11a 521

dave

 

[Charlie Elliott]

Thanks, unfortunately though, I will have to admit to my mum's other-half that I'm more welsh than him - There does seem to be some confusion as to whether it's 18 or 19 Diamond Street though.

Here's the 1911 census information for anyone who cares,

ELLIOTT, Thomas Head Married M 46 1865 Railway Loco Driver Glamorgan Swansea
ELLIOTT, Alice Wife Married20 years F 45 1866 London Lambeth
ELLIOTT, Eveline Daughter Single F 19 1892 Glamorgan Cardiff
ELLIOTT, Samuel Son Single M 18 1893 Tramway Car Cleaner Glamorgan Cardiff
ELLIOTT, Maud Daughter Single F 15 1896 Tailoress Glamorgan Cardiff
ELLIOTT, Amelia Daughter Single F 13 1898 School Glamorgan Cardiff
ELLIOTT, Alice Daughter Single F 11 1900 School Glamorgan Cardiff
ELLIOTT, Arthur Son Single M 9 1902 School Glamorgan Cardiff
ELLIOTT, Beatrice Daughter Single F 6 1905 School Glamorgan Cardiff

164 Railway St, Cardiff.

(Arthur is my great-grandad, and it's interesting to see Thomas' jobs as being Driver, Fitter and Fireman at different points)

Is there no information on his whereabouts before 1891, at all?

 

[Charlie Elliott]

ELLIOTT, Thomas Head Married M 37 1864 Railway Engine Driver Swansea Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Alice Wife Married F 36 1865 Lambeth London
ELLIOTT, Eveline Daughter Single F 9 1892 Cardiff Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Samuel Son Single M 8 1893 Cardiff Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Milly Daughter Single F 3 1898 Cardiff Glamorganshire
ELLIOTT, Alice Daughter Single F 1 1900 Cardiff Glamorganshire

I've just noticed, in the 1901 census result it doesn't mention Maud... who according to the 1911 census is the 3rd eldest child. Can anyone work that out?

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
1891 Census record says 18 Diamond St
It looks as if Thomas's whereabouts before 1881 is not clear, so it is going to take a bit of searching, bear with us..

dave

 

[Charlie Elliott]

Who knows, maybe he found love in London, and took her back home to get married Everyone's efforts are greatly appreciated, thanks.

- I think I tried to post about this already, but it would seem that the 1901 census has eveline, samuel, amelia and alice... whereas the 1911 census places one "Maud Elliott" as the 3rd eldest child. Is this common?

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
In answer to your question Maud 1896 was born between Samuel 1893 and Amelia or Milly 1898.
For whatever reason Maud was not at home on the night of the 1901 census. She will probably appear with her grandparents. Maybe Alice (mother) may not have been well, or Maud was having a holiday.
Only persons actually at a premises at midnight on 31st March 1901 should be recorded

I have a theory about Thomas which I will post after I have had my tea

EDITED THIS MAY BE MAUD in 1901
1901 England Census

Name: Maud Elliott
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1896
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

living Civil parish: Beighton
Ecclesiastical parish: Beighton St Mary
Town: Beighton
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Registration district: Chesterfield
Sub-registration district: Eckington
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Household schedule number: 62
Household Members: Name Age
William Hall 40 South Anston, Yorks
Emma S Hall 39 Shenley Bucks
Dorothy G Hall South Anston, Yorks
Maud Elliott 5 Niece Cardiff

So she was with an Aunt.

dave

 

[Charlie Elliott]

It seems odd to me that a 5 year old girl would be staying on her own, with her aunt and uncle all the way across the border - but the dates, names and relation to the people she's staying with all add up. So, I need to add the Hall's to list of surnames in my signature, too much hassle

Cheers dave, would love to hear your theory on Thomas.

Charlie,

 

[davelambert271]

Hi there
no - William Hall is only there because he married the sister of Alice Elliott nee Clarke, mother of Maud
William Hall married Emma Selina Clarke - Mar Qtr 1891 Cardiff
dave

 

[Charlie Elliott]

Sounds like a double wedding to me...

Both Thomas Elliott and Alice, and William Hall and Emma Clarke - got married in Cardiff, in the March qtr. of 1891. At least that kind of points to the clarke's being based in Cardiff, rather than just a lone Alice Clarke who'd crossed the border.

EDIT: Am still eager to hear your theory on Thomas Elliott,

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
Thomas Elliott 1865

There is not an obvious choice so to find his parents you need to purchase a Marriage cert, which will give his fathers name. They go up £2.00 on 1st April, so if you are to get one do it this week.
However I have a theory which looks promising
In 1871 there is a family
Samuel Elliott 41 Swansea Railway engine driver
Mary 37 Llanelly
Thomas 6 Bettws, Carmarthen
Edward 6 Bettws
Mary N 4 Bettws
Robert 2 Bettws
John 1 Bettws
You will note Samuel was born Swansea, and was a train driver

In 1881 the family is thus
Samuel 50 Swansea, rlwy train driver
Mary 47 llanelly
Mary 14 Carmarthen
Robert 13 Carmarthen
John 11 Carmarthen
Samuel 8 Swansea
David 4 Abergavenny
William C 2 Abergavenny
Thomas and Edward are not on the census.

There is a Edward Elliott 16 Boy Cl 2 at HMS Impregnable at Stoke Dameral, Devon
There is also a Thomas Elliott - Private RM(no age or birthplace) recorded as NOT on board - HMS Audatious at Stoke Damerel, Devon

In case you are not aware, the navy call their builings HMS ----?---, so Impregnable and Audatious could be barracks rather than a ship.

dave

 

[Charlie Elliott]

That certainly does look promising - the only thing I've noticed is that the 1891-1911 census say Thomas was born in Swansea, whereas yours say Thomas was born in Bettws, Carmarthen.

However, the fact that Thomas called his eldest son Samuel, and the fact that he was a train driver, makes your theory too hard too dismiss. With your army records, is there anything which says where about's there Thomas and Edward Elliott are from, or is it just names?

Charlie

EDIT: Just found this, "Edward ELLIOTT U 16 M Bettnos, Carmarthen, Wales Boy 2 Cl"

You're right though, Thomas Elliott is a little bit more inconclusive.

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
Edward was from Carmarthen on 1881 census, no details for Thomas as he was not there. If he had been on leave he may have been travelling overnight.
I am not too bothered about the birthplace being Bettws, Carmarthen, as Samuel junior was down as being born Swansea as well as his dad. I don't know where exactly Bettws is, but the town of Carmarthen is only 12 miles from Swansea and birth places do tend to wander a bit
dave

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
Betws (pronounced /ˈbɛtuːs/) is a small village on the River Amman, some 15 miles north of Swansea, Wales; it is part of the ecclesiastical parish of Betws and Ammanford. The nearby mountain, at the western end of the Black Mountain, is named after the village, and has a large area of common land.
Until the 13th century,[3] Betws was part of Gower, which is now known as the county of Swansea but the old commote border of the rivers Amman and Loughor moved south and Betws has since the Acts of Union been part of Welsh-speaking Carmarthenshire.[4]
Until 1817, when a road was built along the Amman valley, Betws was only accessible by roads crossing the mountain from Neath and Swansea.

just thought this may be of interest
Dave

 

[Charlie Elliott]

Dave, you've been a great help - if you have any suggestions on which avenues I should continue to look down to possibly find further information, please do tell. (Is there any records dating to Samuel Elliott snr's parents, or is that simply too far back for internet research?)

Charlie,

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
It should be possible to find Samuels parents on the 1841/51 census all being well. After that there is a free site http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
which if you're lucky will get you back further.
You need to confirm Samuel is Thomas's dad before searching further as you may be going up a wrong tree.
dave

 

[Charlie Elliott]

And, my only way of confirming this is through Thomas Elliott's marriage certificate?

 

[davelambert271]

Hi Charlie
Don't forget ages were rounded to the nearest 5 years in 1841

1841 Wales Census
about Samuel Ellrott (It looks like Elliott on the census to me)
Name: Samuel Ellrott
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Gender: Male
Where born: Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Swansea
Hundred: Swansea Borough
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: High Street
Occupation: Agricultural Labour

Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea

Household Members:
John Ellrott 35, not born in county
Elizabeth Ellrott 20 no
Jessie Ellrott 15 yes
Samuel Ellrott 10 yes
Mary Anne Ellrott 10 yes
Elizar Ellrott 10 yes
Selina Ellrott 5 yes

dave