Albert WICKENS b. 1874 in 1901 Census

[DaveHam9]

I'd like a look up please for Albert WICKENS in the 1901 Census. Details from the 1891 Census:

1891 England Census
Name: Albert Wickens
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Deptford, London, England

Civil Parish: St Paul Deptford
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Deptford

Thanks.

Dave

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Dave,

Theres nothing showing for a Albert Wickens with those details (using soundtex and 2 yrs either side of 1874)

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello juliejtp,

Thanks for looking. He married in 1905 in Australia but I can't find him on any shipping record. I was trying to see if he was still in England in 1901.

Regards,

Dave

 

[joyceawood17]

Hi Dave,

Thought for a moment that I had found him , until you stated he got married in 1905, because the one i found in 1901 was already married sorry:'( joyce

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Joyce,

Thanks for looking. I'll have to try looking for Wickings as well.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Ruby]

Dave,

I can help you with this search. Albert Frederick George Wickens, born October 1874, son of John and Elizabeth Wickens lived in Australia, and has family living presently in Australia. Other Wickens descendents also live in Australia. I have some of the family history and would be interested in exchanging knowledge. I also have a photo of Albert as a young man as well as photos of other Wickens family members, including John and Elizabeth and most of the other children.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Ruby,

Thank you for the information. My connection is not a very close one. I'm just filling gaps in my database. My connection is from Elizabeth Kelty SANDS and her daughter Catherine POWELL who married Joseph SILVA and his daughter was Elizabeth Maud b. 1886.

All I have for Albert's death is 'after 1936' from the 1936 Electoral Roll:

AUSTRALIAN Electoral Rolls - 1901-1936
Name: Albert George WICKENS
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936
State: New South Wales
District: Reid
Subdistrict: Bankstown North
Albert George WICKENS, Stacey Street, BANKSTOWN Engineer
Elizabeth Maude WICKENS, Stacey Street, BANKSTOWN Home duties
Norman Leonard WICKENS, 305 Stacey Street, BANKSTOWN Labourer
Sydney Sylva WICKENS, Boronia, Stacey Street, BANKSTOWN Labourer

I sent an email to Engineers Australia over a year ago and the Librarian there assured me she would look through their early records to see if they had any information. I'm still waiting.

I have this marriage:

Marriages Sep 1864 Surrey
Vickers Elizabeth Jane Rotherhithe 1d 947
Wickens John William Rotherhithe 1d 947

and this death:

Deaths Mar 1895
Wickens Elizabeth Jane 60 Portsea 2b 422


Regards,

Dave

 

[Ruby]

Firstly, I think it is possible that the Albert Wickens you have traced may not be the right one, it could be him, it could be his son or he may not be the right one at all. Your information of the sons does not include Douglas. It is possible that Douglas was born later than that information. I will have to check that information for you to be certain, and my search will be hindered by the fact that the person I need to talk to is currently in Germany and will return by the end of September. I should be able to solve it, hopefully.

Regarding the marriage of John and Elizabeth Wickens, I have seen a notation in a Wickens family bible which says "A gift by Mr and Mrs Joseph Hugh Gale to Mr and Mrs John William Wickens on the occasion of the marriage of the latter which took place 23 August 1864". The marriage may have been registered in September but it actually took place on 23 August the same year.

Albert Snr's brothers Edward and Wilfrid died at birth (hence why they are not on the 1881 Census). Also not on the 1881 Census was Maude Louise who may not have been born by the Census count (born 9/9/1881).

I am currently investigating the possibility that John Flowers Robert Wickens (eldest son of John and Elizabeth) may have lived in Australia, although he has not been spoken about as having done so. Do you have any information about that part of the family? I do not have any information about John Jnr.

Regarding Elizabeth Jane's death at Portsea. I am not sure that this is the correct Elizabeth Jane. To my knowledge the Wickens family moved to Australia in 1893 (backed up by dates notified in Wickens family bibles). I am not sure whether Elizabeth died in Australia or whether she died before the family moved in 1893. I know she died as a result of her clothes being set alight. I currently have information that says she died in 1902 presumably in Australia. She may have died at Bomaderry. I will make further enquiries with the Wickens descendents.

Thank you for the information. My connection is not a very close one. I'm just filling gaps in my database. My connection is from Elizabeth Kelty SANDS and her daughter Catherine POWELL who married Joseph SILVA and his daughter was Elizabeth Maud b. 1886.

None of those names ring a bell with me. This is another reason why it may be possible that you may have the wrong Albert. I take it that Elizabeth Maud was the wife of Albert. I will make enquiries and try to solve this for you with his descendants.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Ruby,

Thanks. Well, I am not certain, either.

From the 1936 Electoral Roll listing we have the following people who are related to mine but maybe not to yours.

Albert George WICKENS an engineer

spouse: Elizabeth Maud (nee SILVA) b. 1886 Sydney
son: Sydney Slyva (Silva) b. 1 Feb 1909 Alexandria
son: Norman Leonard b. 1915 Canterbury

and a son not in that listing:

Albert Joseph George b. 16 Jun 1906 Alexandria

I can see no other marriage in NSW for an 'Albert WICKENS' (there may be other spellings such as Wickings or marriages in another state) apart from the one of his son, Albert:

marriages:
# 6081/1905 WICKENS ALBERT F G SILVA ELIZABETH M SYDNEY

# 4217/1930 WICKENS ALBERT J G MUSGRAVE MYRTLE J BANKSTOWN


I looked for a birth for an Albert F G WICKENS and found this one:

Surname: WICKENS
Given Names: Albert Frederick G
Event: Birth
December quarter 1874
GREENWICH, ENGLAND
Volume number: 1d
Page number: 894

Birth registered Oct-Dec and actual birth could possibly fall late Sept.

Re the marriage in Sep 1864 in Surrey, that is from the index and it means registered in the September quarter (July-Sept) of the year.

Re the death of Elizabeth Jane WICKENS I gave that one as a possibility since I have no shipping record yet showing who arrived in Australia and when. There is this death in NSW:

6309/1902 WICKENS ELIZABETH J RICHARD MARY A NOWRA

and this one too, so I would say that almost proves they both came to Australia and died in Nowra:

8316/1926 WICKENS JOHN W JOHN F EMMA E NOWRA

Re John Flowers Robert, he appears in the Electoral Roll in 1930 in Division of Parkes and in 1936 in Division of Lang. And his marriage:

# 6977/1929 WICKENS JOHN F R NELSON DELIA MARRICKVILLE

and his death with names reversed:

# 21901/1955 WICKENS JOHN ROBERT F JOHN WILLIAM ELIZABETH JANE RYDE

Regards,

Dave

 

[Ruby]

Thanks for the info about John Flowers.

Thanks. Well, I am not certain, either.

From the 1936 Electoral Roll listing we have the following people who are related to mine but maybe not to yours.

Albert George WICKENS an engineer

spouse: Elizabeth Maud (nee SILVA) b. 1886 Sydney
son: Sydney Slyva (Silva) b. 1 Feb 1909 Alexandria
son: Norman Leonard b. 1915 Canterbury

and a son not in that listing:

Albert Joseph George b. 16 Jun 1906 Alexandria

I can see no other marriage in NSW for an 'Albert WICKENS' (there may be other spellings such as Wickings or marriages in another state) apart from the one of his son, Albert:

marriages:
# 6081/1905 WICKENS ALBERT F G SILVA ELIZABETH M SYDNEY

# 4217/1930 WICKENS ALBERT J G MUSGRAVE MYRTLE J BANKSTOWN

Hi Dave,

The fact that you have found the other son Albert now confirms to me that your listing for Albert Frederick George (Snr) is the correct one. He definitely had a son Albert and Albert had a son Douglas and this is where is I know there is a connection. Douglas was probably born after the listing. I believe you now have the right one. They did live at Bankstown. Albert Frederick George (Snr) was born Oct 18, 1874, baptised at St Nicolas Deptford Kent.

The dates you had for the deaths of John and Elizabeth are the same dates that I have listed for them too from Wickens family papers. (1926 and 1902 respectively).

6309/1902 WICKENS ELIZABETH J RICHARD MARY A NOWRA

and this one too, so I would say that almost proves they both came to Australia and died in Nowra:

8316/1926 WICKENS JOHN W JOHN F EMMA E NOWRA

I am a newbie at tracing family history through official sources. Can you explain to me from the above where it says Wickens Elizabeth J - what does the Richard Mary A mean? Are they siblings or children or parents?

I see for John W Wickens there is listed John F and Emma E - presumably they are the children John Flowers and Emma Elizabeth. So if that is how they are listed with children following - who is Richard and Mary A? I don't know anyone by that name in the Wickens family. Maybe it is the wrong listing for Elizabeth J.

Re John Flowers Robert, he appears in the Electoral Roll in 1930 in Division of Parkes and in 1936 in Division of Lang. And his marriage:

# 6977/1929 WICKENS JOHN F R NELSON DELIA MARRICKVILLE

Same here Dave, Who would Nelson and Delia be - children?

and his death with names reversed:

# 21901/1955 WICKENS JOHN ROBERT F JOHN WILLIAM ELIZABETH JANE RYDE

John Flowers Robert Wickens was born in 1865. Would the John William and Elizabeth Jane be his parents or children? I can't work out who is who here. Are you able to help me? Could this possibly be John Flower Robert's son?

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Ruby,

Thanks, more is falling into place now.

Re John Flowers Robert, and his marriage:

# 6977/1929 WICKENS JOHN F R - NELSON DELIA - MARRICKVILLE

This site removed extra spaces so original formatting disappears making the listings harder to read. For marriages you get the registration number, year of registration (event could take place in last three weeks of previous year) the names of both parties and the registration district which may not be the actual suburb or town. So we have John F R who married Delia NELSON.

For births and deaths you get the names of the parents as provided by the informant. As a result there can be errors in the parents names, especially on death records.

Death:
# 8316/1926 WICKENS JOHN W - JOHN F - EMMA E - NOWRA

Whoever was the informant gave John F as his father and Emma E as his mother. This information may or may not be correct.

Death:
# 6309/1902 WICKENS ELIZABETH J - RICHARD - MARY A - NOWRA

The information on the parents names may or may not be correct. If correct then Elizabeth's parents may be Richard Vickers and Mary Ann Newman.

Death:
# 21901/1955 WICKENS JOHN ROBERT F - JOHN WILLIAM - ELIZABETH JANE - RYDE

For the NSW index listings you do not get the mother's maiden name like you do on the Queensland ones. For $17 you can get a transcript of the NSW BDM that would probably show the name as Elizabeth Jane [MS - maiden surname] Vickers.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Ruby]

Thanks Dave,

I will follow up that info.

Regarding Albert, do you want me to find out when he died and provide you info about Albert Jnr and his family, or do you have what you need now.

 

[Ruby]

Dave,

I have info for you.

Albert Frederick George Wickens died in 1945 in Australia aged 72. Left 5 children - Albert, Sydney, Norman, Douglas and Frederick. (Douglas was his son not his grandson).

 

[Ruby]

Dave,

What can you tell me about Catherine Swan Powell and Elizabeth Kelty Sands? (marriages, births, deaths, children, husbands)

thanks

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Ruby,

Thanks for the info. I didn't have the youngest two sons, Douglas or Frederick. I have some info but there are gaps you may be able to fill. I'll get together a list of WICKENS queries.

I'll give you some information on POWELL and SANDS. I'm not sure how many generations up and down you want. The SANDS for example go back to 1744 in Torryburn, Scotland and the POWELL to 1600s in Ireland.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Ruby,

I can't see Albert's death in NSW in 1945 so I guess it must have been in another state.

Is Frederick's middle name Edward?

I have found this on Douglas:

Service Record
Name WICKENS, DOUGLAS FREDERICK
Service Royal Australian Navy
Service Number 22668
Date of Birth 30 Apr 1921
Place of Birth BANKSTOWN, NSW
Date of Enlistment 12 Dec 1938
Locality on Enlistment Unknown
Home Port/Port Division SYDNEY, NSW
Next of Kin ALBERT
Date of Discharge 14 Dec 1944
Rank L/SEA
Posting at Discharge HMAS Penguin
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War No

Regards,

Dave

 

[Ruby]

Hello Ruby,

I can't see Albert's death in NSW in 1945 so I guess it must have been in another state.

Is Frederick's middle name Edward?

I have found this on Douglas:

Service Record
Name WICKENS, DOUGLAS FREDERICK
Service Royal Australian Navy
Service Number 22668
Date of Birth 30 Apr 1921
Place of Birth BANKSTOWN, NSW
Date of Enlistment 12 Dec 1938
Locality on Enlistment Unknown
Home Port/Port Division SYDNEY, NSW
Next of Kin ALBERT
Date of Discharge 14 Dec 1944
Rank L/SEA
Posting at Discharge HMAS Penguin
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War No

Regards,

Dave

Re the death notice I believe he died in NSW. There are a few in a number of families that are not in the death notices in NSW for that period. Why I do not know. I have it from a very good source within the Wickens family so you can be reasonably sure that is the correct date.

That is definitely Douglas the son. He was in the Navy. Albert was in the Air Force and Sydney was in the army.

Albert Joseph died in New Guinea in 1943.

Frederick's middle name is Edward.

Albert Snr (born 1874) was a merchant seaman. His brother Henry Wickens died at sea.

I'll give you some information on POWELL and SANDS. I'm not sure how many generations up and down you want. The SANDS for example go back to 1744 in Torryburn, Scotland and the POWELL to 1600s in Ireland.

That would be great. A few generations would be great if you can manage. Thanks

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Ruby,

Thanks.

Albert enlisted twice. I think the first was a quota call up.

Service Record
Name WICKENS, ALBERT JOSEPH
Service Royal Australian Air Force
Service Number 207070
Date of Birth 16 Jun 1906
Place of Birth ALEXANDRIA, NSW
Date of Enlistment 1 Jul 1927
Locality on Enlistment Unknown
Place of Enlistment RICHMOND, NSW
Next of Kin Unknown
Date of Discharge Unknown
Rank Leading Aircraftman
Posting at Discharge 3 SQUADRON
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War No

Service Record
Name WICKENS, ALBERT JOSEPH
Service Royal Australian Air Force
Service Number 14339
Date of Birth 16 Jun 1906
Place of Birth SYDNEY, NSW
Date of Enlistment 8 Apr 1940
Locality on Enlistment Unknown
Place of Enlistment SYDNEY, NSW
Next of Kin WICKENS, A
Date of Discharge 5 Nov 1945
Rank Flight Lieutenant
Posting at Discharge 3 AIRCRAFT DEPOT
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War No

Interesting in that it says he was discharged in 1945 ?? There is no death of a WICKENS in 1943 in the Australian War Memorial Roll of Honour.

Who's death is this? The age at death fits:

WICKENS Albert Joseph George Death notice 25JUN1975 Death 69 at Maryborough, Queensland SMH 30JUN1975


If this is Frederick's death then he was born much later than the others:

WICKENS Frederick Edward Death notice 01DEC2000 Death 72 late of Dee Why SMH 09DEC2000

No problem with the POWELL and SANDS.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Ruby]

I thought the info I was given was that Albert Jnr. was a civilian ship engineer and he was killed in New Guinea in 1943. That was the date I was given by a member of Wickens family. You have made me now wonder whether I interpreted the info correctly. It may have been Albert Snr who died in New Guinea as a civilian ship engineer (hence no death certif). I will go back and query the info again. The death you have found of Albert Joseph may be the son.

I will clarify it.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Ruby,

Very few post 1900 NSW deaths don't appear so it's possible Albert Snr died in 1943 or 1945 in PNG.

Elizabeth Maud/Maude SILVA b. 1886 Sydney d. 1968 Bankstown

I don't yet have full dates for all events.

Her parents were:

Joseph John SILVA b. ? d. 1939 Granville

married 1881 Sydney

Catherine S POWELL b. 1862 Glebe d. 1927 Auburn

Joseph had several brothers and there is one NSW birth registration missing and one that does not say if it's Joseph's or William's. I hope to sort that out soon.

3528/1863 SILVA MALE JOSEPH SUSAN PADDINGTON

I have no information that S= Swan
One of Catherine's siblings has S as a middle initial but it = SANDS. There is if you go back two generations on the SANDS side a Catharine Angus SWAN so it could be either.

Joseph's parents were Joseph & Susanna DAVEY.

Elizabeth Maud had 5 siblings.

Catherine's parents:

William Henry POWELL b. abt 1837 Ireland, probably Castle-Connell, Co Limerick

The baptism of older siblings can be found in Stradbally Church of Ireland parish registers but so far his is a mystery.
A younger sibling was born on board the vesel 'Susan' just before it reached Sydney. That means William must have been born in Ireland or England since the vessel originated from an English port and not an Irish one.


married 1860 Sydney

Elizabeth Kelty SANDS b. 10 Apr 1838 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland d. 1916 Sydney

10/04/1838 SANDS ELIZABETH WILLIAM SANDS/CATHERINE SWAN FR4405 F Dunfermline /FIFE 424/ 0150 0185

-------
William's parents:

Thomas Eyre POWELL b. Uregare, Ballinstona S, Co Limerick, Ireland d. 15 Nov 1873 Waterloo, NSW

Elizabeth Mitchell WARREN ??

Although the names Mitchell and Warren appear as middle names in descendants there is no sign of the marriage or of her birth and nothing to confirm that is her name.

-------
Elizabeth Kelty's parents

William SANDS b. 1 Jun 1810 Torryburn, Fife, Scotland d. 5 Nov 1873 Sydney

married 11 May 1833 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland

11/05/1833 SANDS WILLIAM CATHARINE ANGUS/SWAN FR4688 M Dunfermline /FIFE 424/ 0160 0323

Catharine Angus SWAN b. 9 Jul 1816 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland d. 24 Feb 1881 Woollahra

William's mother was Elizabeth KELTIE/KELTY hence the middle name which sometimes appears in descendants as Celty.

The SANDS side goes back 3 more generations. The POWELL side even further but I've not included that in my database. The POWELLs from 1600-1800s were a large wealthy family and members held very important positions in Ireland and England, such as Collector of Customs...

Nobility, Gentry and Clergy section of Pigots (1824) for Castle-Connell

Thomas Eyre (sometimes Ayre) parent's marriage in 1801:

Index to Diocese of Killala and Achonry
Marriage Bonds Film 100868
Powell Eyre & Mary Barrett 1801 p.120


Regards,

Dave