Andrew CHALMERS & Elizabeth ARROL

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

This is what I have:

Index To Paupers 1839-1883 Series 11 Vol 11/1-11/20
Statement #9168 10 Dec 1857

James Arrol aged 37 ? and wife aged 33
12 Causeyside - Place of Birth Lylesland Abbey ?
Married 14 years ago in Paisley
Parents: John Arrol Ann Tytler
Geo Butchard Christina Hanna
Weaver - Idle 4 weeks 12/- Settlement Abbey

Children:
Christina 13 - In mill idle
Ann 11
John 9
James 8 <--- [Janet]
Elis. 6
Robert 2
Jean 6mo <--- [Jane]

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

Spouse of Janet:

Samuel ANGEL b. 8 Aug 1826 - I have not confirmed that date.

Baptised 27 Aug 1826 Paisley Low - from fiche in library 573.3/6 FR1034 (Angle)

Arrived Victoria 12 Sep 1854 from Liverpool

ANGEL SAML 27 - SEP 1854 FITZJAMES B 076 011

ANGEL, SAMUEL.
Event: Missing friends
25 SEP 1854
Place: Victoria
Source: 'Argus' missing friends index 1854-1855.
Author/compiler: Button, Marion.
Comment: YOUR BROTHER STEPHEN WISHES YOU TO WRITE TO HIM

ANGEL, STEPHEN.
Event: Missing friends
25 NOV 1854
Place: Victoria
Source: 'Argus' missing friends index 1854-1855.
Author/compiler: Button, Marion
Comment: WHO SAW RICHARD DUNN FROM PAISLEY, SCOTLAND IN MELBOURNE

There is a report in the Port Phillip Herald 15/1/1856 p. 7 col 3 of an inquest on Samuel Angel who died in an industrial accident at Corduory Bridge near Ballaarat. Inquest held on 10th - Injured in boiler explosion on 7th and died on 8th.

Surname: ANGEL
Given Names: Samuel
Place: Corduroy Ridge
Year: 1856
Reference: 25
***: M
Cause: Burst Boiler Burns
Occupation: Carter

Died 8 Jan 1856 Corduory Bridge, Vic. - near Ballarat. Buried 9th.

There is no death certificate because his death was the subject of an inquest.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

1851 Census
Paisley Low - 13 Bridge St
Name Age Ward Enum Page Line Occupation
Angel
Samuel 23 464 3 9 7 Starcher
Janet 22 - - - 8 Warp Winder
Anne 3 - - - 9
Samuel 8mo - - - 10
Mary Clymont lodger age 28 b. Paisley, Renfrew weaver warp winder
Thomas Clymont age 6 b. Paisley, Renfrew [England]
John Clymont age 4 b. Paisley, Renfrew [England]
Name should be Clement.

I have the following for the children of Samuel & Janet:

Anne b. abt 1848 Paisley d. bef 17 Feb 1853 Paisley

Samuel b. abt 1849 Paisley death or burial 14 Jul 1849 Paisley -

14/07/1849 ANGEL SAMUEL M ABBEY /RENFREW 559/00 0212
Bridge St Burgh Teething Fever 7 mo

Samuel b. abt 1850 Paisley d. Apr 1853 Paisley

Age recorded as 1 (8mo) in 1851 Census Paisley Low
Age recorded as 2 1/2 on 17 Feb 1853
Burial: Abbey 12/04/1853 Samuel ANGEL

John b. 16 Sep 1852 Paisley d. 13 Feb 1858 ? Paisley -

573.3/6 FR1109
John ANGEL b. 16 Sep 1852
Samuel ANGEL & Janet EARL
Batch: C119624
Age recorded as 5/12 on 17 Feb 1853
Died 13 Feb 1858 ?
Burial: Abbey 15/02/1858 John ANGEL

Mary Clark b. 19 Feb 1855 Paisley d. 10 Sep 1923 Paisley

Christina b. 15 Mar 1861 Paisley d. 2 Jul 1862 Paisley

Dave

 

[Greghughes1]

Dave,

Thanks for putting up all of that information. Very helpful indeed.

If there is anything you want me to check though on the Arrol or other lines please let me known and I will be happy to check through.

I have a copy of the book on the Arrol family by John Arrol which pretty much lists every Arrol family there is. I would be happy to send through the relevant bits if it would be of interest to you.

Thanks

Greg

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

What do you have for John spouse of Ann TYTLER?

I have no birth/baptism and death as bef. 17 Feb 1853 from the Paupers Index but I could say before 1841 because I don't have him in the census with the family.

I think I'm right with Ann.

Thanks.

Dave

 

[Greghughes1]

Dave,

I unfortunately have nothing I can add for John Arrol, husband of Ann Tytler. I agree that it is likely he died prior to the 1841 census as I have searched pretty thoroughly and have been unable to find him elsewhere. My tree ends with him too.

The Arrol book has I mentioned has a pretty comprehensive list of all John Arrols recorded in the parish registers but I have not been able to find one that seems to fit. It does list him as son of a Walter Arrol, but having investigated this further I established that the lineage in the book was incorrect. (It lists his date of death as 1858).

I found a marriage in Paisley in 1805 which I wondered if it might be a first marriage of John Arrol but have been unable to prove this:

John Arrol to Mary Alexander, Paisley, 12 Jan 1805

Sorry I cannot be of more help on this front. Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

Thanks

Greg

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

Thanks. Looks as though we are stuck with that line. This is what I have for the children if you could please check it and fill in any gaps you can. Two at a time:

William b. abt 1820 Paisley d. 1881 - 1891

married 19 Nov 1858 Paisley High

William ARRAL & Ann McGHEE
19 Nov 1858 High Church, Paisley, Renfrew

Ann McGEE/McGHEE b. abt 1833 Paisley d. 1881 - 1891

---

James b. abt 1823 Paisley d. 1871 Glasgow, Lanark

married 16 Jun 1843 Paisley Abbey

James ARRAL & Jean BUTCHARD
16 Jun 1843 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew

Jean BUTCHART (variations) b. 1824 Shotts, Lanark d. 1904 Auchterderran, Fife

Thanks.

Dave

 

[Greghughes1]

Dave,

The information you have ties with what I have. Below are a few more details where I have them:

1. William Arrol died 13 September 1885 of Apoplexy. Annie Arrol nee McGhee died 26 February 1899 at 5 Neilston Street, Paisley of bronchitis and failure of breath.

2. James Arrol (my 2 x great grandfather) was born about 1822 at Lylesland, Paisley. He died 6 November 1871 at 176 Stirling Road, Glasgow of disease of the heart and dropsy.

3. Jane Arrol nee Butchart/Butcher was born 25 July 1824. Place of birth varies between census - Eklig(?) in 1851, Falkirk in 1861, Campsie in 1871, Paisley in 1881 and Shotts in 1891 & 1901. As she was christened in Polmont within a month of her birth I have opted for for Polmont as the place of birth but I think the true location will remain a mystery. She died 6 April 1904 at 29 South Street, Lochgelly, Fife of cardiac disease, 3 months and pulmonary oedema. She was buried 7 April 1904 at Bowhill Cemetery, Cardenden, Fife. She moved to Fife with her youngest son George. He is buried in the same grave as her.

4. Christina Arrol born about 1824 in Paisley. Married William Gilchrist on 12 November 1847 at Paisley. William was born about 1823 at Paisley. Christina died 1 November 1857 at 80 Canal Street, Paisley of hepatic disease, nearly 6 weeks. I don't have William's death.

5. Elizabeth Arrol born about 1828 in Paisley. Died 20 November 1874 at 69 Causeyside Street, Paisley.

6. Mary Arrol born about 1831 in Paisley. No further information. I only have her details from the 1841 census.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any others you want me to check.

Thanks

Greg

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

Thank you very much.

I did find this but thought how could the age be that much out:

Death 1885 William ARROL Paisley, Renfrew Age 50

I also found this one last night:

Death 1899 Ann ARROL (McGHEE) Paisley, Renfrew Age 65

I'll add that to my database and see what me next query is.

I don't have Elizabeth in census after 1851 so her death in 1874 is a bit of a surprise.

I've been trying today to work out who this is:

Alexander RODGER & Elizabeth ARROL
18 Jun 1852 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew


Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

05/08/1821 BUCHART CHRISTIAN GIB GEORGE BUCHART/CHRISTIAN HANNA FR928 F CAMPSIE /STIRLING 475/00 0040 0029

Page 14
August 5th 1821
BUTCHART Christina Gib lawful daughter of George Buchart Weaver of Wardhill and Christian Hanna his spouse, born 13th Jul 1821. Wits. Nicol Hunter & Alex. Allan.


20/08/1820 BUTCHER GEORGE CHRISTIAN HANNA/FR815 M DENNY /STIRLING 476/00 0030 0362

Page 3
1820 July 22
George Butcher Collier Hays [Hags?] and Christian Hanna residenter there gave in their names for proclamation in order to marriage and were proclaimed on the three following sabbaths and married on the twentieth of Aug following.

 

[Greghughes1]

Dave,

The age for William Arrol is a bit out as is the name of the father stated on the death certificate (William Arrol rather than John) but the wife's name and mother's name match. Have attached certificate.

Elizabeth's death is correct. Death certificate attached but as you will see, she was married to John Pollock. I don't have the marriage details.

Most of the info I have on the children of John Arrol and Ann Tytler is from the book on the Arrol family I mentioned. I have only checked all of the original sources for John Arrol & Ann Tytler and James Arrol & Jean Butcher as they are directly on my line.

I don't have the Arrol book with me (I am currently visiting family in Perth WA) but will send through the relevant sections when I get back to England (in a week or so).

The book may be able to shed some light on the Elizabeth Arrol to Alexander Rodger marriage too. I don't have that on my tree.

Thanks

Greg

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

Thanks.

Did a search in 1861 for that Elizabeth and didn't find them, but also didn't find another Elizabeth who it could have been either.

I have copies of some certificates so we should compare and swap them. Images posted here get cut down in size to reduce storage of the archive so often you can't read them if you zoom in.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

I have lots of death certificates that show a 2nd marriage and that 2nd marriage can't be found, so that's nothing new.

Dave

 

[Greghughes1]

Dave,

If you send me an email address on a private message I can send you through the full size copies so that you can see them better. I can send you my email address too so that you can send over some certificates.

I have a few certificates (as attached) but not many. Mostly I transcribed the details from the records on a visit to the GRO in Edinburgh some years ago.

Greg

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

Ok, thanks. Catch you tomorrow.

Dave.

 

[DaveHam9]

Haggs is 4 m SSW of Denny

DENNY

"Name, Situation, &c. - The origin of the name of Denny is unknown - The parish lies in the county and presbytery of Stirling and the synod of Perth and Stirling. - It is about 4 miles in length, 2 and 1/2 in breadth. - The soil, about the town, or village of Denny, and indeed throughout the greater part o the parish, is dry and sandy; but in some places, it is wet, and has a good deal of clay in it. - The air is reckoned pure and healthy, and many of the people attain a good old age. Some, however, are much troubled with rheumatic comlpaints; and fevers frequently prevail, and are often fatal."

20/08/1820 BUTCHER GEORGE CHRISTIAN HANNA/FR815 M DENNY /STIRLING 476/00 0030 0362


1820 Page 3
July 22
George Butcher Collier Hags and Christian Hanna residenter there gave in their names for proclamation in order to marriage and were proclaimed on the three following sabbaths and married on the twentieth of Aug following.

 

[DaveHam9]

At 17 Mb for the original they are written in a hand that is easy to read and although faint the words are clear. I can only see one 'b' in Gib. It is Butchart in the first column but Buchart (t not d on the end of both) in the body of the record.


05/08/1821 BUCHART CHRISTIAN GIB GEORGE BUCHART/CHRISTIAN HANNA FR928 F CAMPSIE /STIRLING 475/00 0040 0029


1821 Page 14
August 5th 1821
Butchart Christian Gib lawful daughter of George Buchart Weaver Wardhill and Christian Hanna his Spouse, born 13th July 1821. Wits. Nicol Hunter & Alexr. Allan.

 

[Greghughes1]

Dave,

Thanks for transcribing these.

Kind regards

Greg

 

[DaveHam9]

Greg,

No problems. They were easy ones.

Dave