another name for AGNES

[marjon]

I have gone grey with looking for my gg grandmother Agnes Telford born circa 1800 in Scotland over the last 20 years or so, without success - could she have a different name to Agnes? Would Ann be Agnes? Would she have a completely different name to what is shown in the census? All I know is she is the mother of the children to my gggrandfather George Burn b. 1785 Wooler, Northumberland. I have all the census and their death certs. Doesn't tell me much.

 

[ptjw7]

Best I could come up with is 'Senga' which is a Scottish name for Agnes although some say just Agnes spelt backwards.
Other than that it could just be a known as name.

peter

 

[barbarajoh]

I have seen Ann and Nan and Nancy for Agnes. There are several Agnes Telfers born in 1800 so could her last name actually have been that as it is so similar? Also what were her children called in order to try and see if she used the Scottish naming patterns. Do you have George's parents too?

Barbara

 

[Elwyn]

I agree. In my experience of research in both Scotland & Ireland, Agnes, Ann & Nancy are completely interchangeable.

 

[marjon]

thanks for replies. I have found the Telford/Telfer name is intertwined and I also found quite a few Ann Telford/Telfer entries in the Borders area. First child born 1825/1826 in Wooler to George and Agnes and they are possibly Scottish Naming Patterned. Agnes father may have been Joseph Telford but I have nothing for him or any clues whatsoever. I need to find her marriage to George Burn - cannot find anything in the Wooler parish records, and have looked at most of the parishes along the River Tweed, even the Bridge Marriages (80 of them) all the way up to Gretna Green. Nothing. Scotlands People doesn't bring up a marriage either. I am at a complete standstill here.

 

[barbarajoh]

I am in the Scottish Borders so quite happy to see if I can find anything for you. Northumberland can be very difficult and there were a lot of Presbyterian churches there for which the records are hard to find. You would be best to get in touch with Northumberland FHS to see if they can help you find the marriage. Have you found christenings for their children and if so where? If you give me more details of the children then I can try and help see if I can find parents for Agnes in our records.

Barbara

 

[marjon]

I am in the Scottish Borders so quite happy to see if I can find anything for you. Northumberland can be very difficult and there were a lot of Presbyterian churches there for which the records are hard to find. You would be best to get in touch with Northumberland FHS to see if they can help you find the marriage. Have you found christenings for their children and if so where? If you give me more details of the children then I can try and help see if I can find parents for Agnes in our records.

Barbara

thank you Barbara - I would be so pleased if you could find something (anything!) = here are the details below :=
George Burn (1785/1861) and Agnes Telford's(1800/1880) children were all baptised :
John Burn b. 1824 OR 1826 Cornhill on Tweed
Joseph Burn b. 1827 Cornhill
Mary (Anne) Burn b.1830 or 1832 Cornhill (may be Wooler)
Adam Thompson Burn b. 1832 Wooler d. 1895 (my gg grandfather)
Margaret Burn b. 1833 d. 1833 Wooler
Thomas Burn b. 1835 Wooler
(family moved to Chester le Street after 1841)
Big gap in family records here
Robert Burn b. 1843 Chester le Street
Jesse Burn (f) b. 1844 d. 1849 (buried with her father at CLS).
According to 1851 and 1861 Census the family were living at Low Chare in Chester Le Street. George Burn is listed as a Groom or Horseman, although I think in his early days at Cornhill or Wooler he is a Carrier. After long deliberations I came to the conclusion that he is the son of George Burn and Elizabeth Armstrong of Wooler. His sister Margaret Burn married a William Lisle. Other than that I have nothing to go on at all. I found all the children's marriages (and their children) - Mary Burn married twice in Tynemouth.
Agnes died 30 March 1880 of Senile Dementia at 16 Harris Street Bradford with my gggrandfather Adam Thompson Burn in attendance. Adam and family moved back to Middlesbrough after working in the steelworks all his life.
Her death certificate says she was born in Scotland. All the census records say the same - 'S' for Scotland.
I can only presume that George may have been delivering to a farm just over the border when he met her. It could even be Edinburgh. I have searched parishes around Cornhill and Wooler, extending the areas bit by bit finding a few Telford families and the closest I came up with was a Joseph Telford (Telfer) Farmer (not sure of place). The Telford/Telfer name is originally from Cumberland (I think). I have also searched ALL the LDS films and parish records for Wooler noting down all the family names, but coming up with nothing 'concrete'. Yours and anyone else's help would be greatly appreciated as this has been the most frustrating part of my family tree for over 25 years! Marg

 

[barbarajoh]

Hi Marg,

This area can be frustrating. I have a few Northumberland books at home so have checked them for you. No Burns or Telfords in the Cornhill Monumental Inscriptions nor in Branxton, a few Burns and Burn in Ford MI's but no Telfer/Telford. I also have Spittal Presbyterian Church baptisms 1787-1837 but this is just an index. However I was interested to see some baptisms for Burn to a John and Margaret in these years (John, Margaret, Robert and Thomas are the names of these children )who may be the parents of George as it fits the naming patterns for him to have a mother and father John and Margaret as George's first son was John and second daughter Margaret unless you are sure about George and Elizabeth Armstrong, of course. How did you find out Mgt Lisle was a sister?

Cornhill is a hop, skip and jump from Coldtream so they could have married at Coldstream Bridge in Scotland but only the years 1793-7 have survived.

Also Agnes could have been born in Scotland and christened in England again as the border is so close. I have seen this happen.

I will now check the Coldsteam MIs for Telfers in case her family came from there.

I can't find her in 1861 or 1871 can you give me the folio no etc so I can pick her up. Can find Adam easily but not Agnes!

Sorry it is all negative so far.

Barbara

 

[marjon]

Hi Marg,

This area can be frustrating. I have a few Northumberland books at home so have checked them for you. No Burns or Telfords in the Cornhill Monumental Inscriptions nor in Branxton, a few Burns and Burn in Ford MI's but no Telfer/Telford. I also have Spittal Presbyterian Church baptisms 1787-1837 but this is just an index. However I was interested to see some baptisms for Burn to a John and Margaret in these years (John, Margaret, Robert and Thomas are the names of these children )who may be the parents of George as it fits the naming patterns for him to have a mother and father John and Margaret as George's first son was John and second daughter Margaret unless you are sure about George and Elizabeth Armstrong, of course. How did you find out Mgt Lisle was a sister?

Cornhill is a hop, skip and jump from Coldtream so they could have married at Coldstream Bridge in Scotland but only the years 1793-7 have survived.

Also Agnes could have been born in Scotland and christened in England again as the border is so close. I have seen this happen.

I will now check the Coldsteam MIs for Telfers in case her family came from there.

I can't find her in 1861 or 1871 can you give me the folio no etc so I can pick her up. Can find Adam easily but not Agnes!

Sorry it is all negative so far.

Barbara

thanks Barbara - I will send you the information on the 61 and 71 census if you could send me an email address to send to you (privately) if possible. I had a look at the Coldstream Bridge Marriages (only 80 survived I think) - as mentioned previously, I had a look at all the River Tweed areas, even Spittal and Berwick on Tweed. The only one that matched My George b. 1785 was the one in Wooler born to George Burn/Elizabeth Armstrong. Only two children to this couple - the other being Margaret, who married William Lisle. He was a farmer in the area. I did deliberate over George for many years but had to run with something, so that was my choice. In 2000 I visited the area, even going into Kelso area and Coldstream and BOT History Centre. We went to Edinburgh GRO too, but only scanty information on the Telfords. Hope to hear from you off site. Thanks once again. Marg

 

[Ladybird1300]

Hi Marg,

Just to throw another name into the mix, the further back you go the name becomes Annis this then throws the light on Ann because I think it is the Latin spelling, which you often find in Catholic baptisms: eg Roberti Guillimus and Johannis hope this helps.

Amanda