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ARROL family in Renfrew in 1841

DaveHam9

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#1
I'd like a look up please in 1841 for the following family in Renfrew. The name should be ARROL but could be any one of:

ARROL / ARROLL / ARRAL / ARRALL / ARALL

John ARROL married Ann TYTLER 18 May 1815 Paisley Abbey and/or 20 May 1815 Paisley Low.

James born abt 1821 Paisley
Janet born abt 1827 Paisley

I don't know if they had any other children. I have no information at all on John or Ann's birth dates. Ann was still alive in Feb 1853 but spouse John was not.

James married in 1843 and Janet married in 1846.

I have looked in FreeCEN and can't find any of them. They were all alive in 1841 and in Renfrew I'm sure.

Thanks.

Dave
 

pejay

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#2
I have not found them on the census but I found this on the IGI, he may be the right one? - John Arrol ch 21/8/1786 middle or new parish, Greenock, Renfrew.
Parents Duncan Arroll and Rose Bain, couldn't find anything for an Ann Tyler though :)
 

pejay

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could this be the son in the 1841 census? -
Elderslie, Renfrew,
Jane Dewar 30 FS
Marion Keddie 25 FS
Margaret Sarsfield 11 FS
James Arrol 20 Gardener J:)
 

DaveHam9

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#4
Hello pejay,

Thanks for looking. Like the ANGEL family which is connected by marriage this family is proving very elusive. That could be John. The name is not that common and the date makes him 8 years older than Ann.

I doub't that is son James. I'm sure he was in Paisley working as a weaver as his sister and some children were later.

Regards,

Dave
 

pejay

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#5
I looked again, but I am sorry I can't find anything, could they have moved to a different area? perhaps for whatever reason they are just not on it or perhaps some pages could be missing? do you have them on other censuses? I know it can be very frustrating when people don't want to be found! :)
 

DaveHam9

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#6
Hello pejay,

Thanks for looking. No, I don't have them on later census yet. I started with 1841 so now we can look in 1851. This is one of the families:

James ARRAL Spouse: Jean BUTCHARD
Marriage: 16 Jun 1843 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew, Scotland

James b. abt 1821
spouse Jean b. abt 1824
Christina b. abt 1844
Ann b. abt 1846
John b. abt 1848
James b. abt 1849
Elisabeth b. abt 1851


Of course, some of the children may have died young.

I have Janet ARROL and her spouse in 1851:

1851 Census Paisley Low - 13 Bridge St
ANGEL
Name Age Ward Enum Page Line Occupation
Samuel 23 464 3 9 7 Starcher
Janet 22 8 Warp Winder
Anne 3 9
Samuel 8mo 10

Spouse Samuel died on 8 Jan 1856. Oh, I think both Anne and Samuel died before 1861. A daughter Mary Clark (middle name after her grandmother's name) was born in 1855. Please see if you can find Janet and Mary C in 1861.

There is a note in the Paupers Index in Paisley saying Janet was living with her mother Ann and that her mother looked after the children. Ann died in 1863. So perhaps the three of them might be together in 1861.

Regards,

Dave
 

pejay

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#7
I can find nothing on the 1851 census either, maybe they are not complete I do not know. There are some Arrols at Paisley, but the father seems to be mainly a Thomas. I will look on later censuses when I get more time. :)
 

DaveHam9

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#8
Hello pejay,

Thanks for looking. My ARROL family is in Paisley and lots of them are mill workers or out of work mill workers in some cases. I don't have a Thomas in my tree. He may be a brother of my John who married Ann TYTLER.

I have just found a second marriage for Janet.

One family should look like this in 1861:

Ann ARROL b. abt 1794 she died 22 Aug 1863
Janet **** b. abt 1827 don't know what county
Mary Clark ANGEL b. 19 Feb 1855 she died in 1923

**** Janet's spouse Samuel died on 8 Jan 1856 so I don't know if she is using ANGEL or if she reverted to her maiden name ARROL in 1961. We have mother, daughter & grand daughter.

Janet married John CRAIG on 16 Sep 1864 Paisley and they had a son: Daniel McCallum CRAIG
b. 5 Jan 1866 High Church Paisley, Renfrew
Father: John CRAIG Mother: Janet AIROL

Add EARL and AIROL to the list of variations.

Regards,

Dave
 

pejay

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#9
At last I may have found something useful on the 1851 census-
at 13 Bridge st, Paisley Low Church
Samuel Angel head age 23 Starcher
Janet " wife age 22 Weaver warp winder
Ann " daugh age 3
Samuel " son age 8m
Mary Clymont lodger 28 Weaver warp winder
Thomas " " 6 scholar
John " " 4

all born in Paisley

sorry too good to be true, I see you have got that one!
 
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DaveHam9

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#10
Hello pejay,

Thanks for looking some more. Perhaps it is James in Elderslie after all in 1841. He did become a mill worker later but Elderslie is a village between Paisley and Johnstone and is included in the Paisley Abbey parish. It's only a few miles away.

There are so few ARROL like ANGEL that I'm wondering if they also came from England. It seems every member of both families should fit in my tree somehow.

Please see if you can find any ANGEL /ANGELL /ANGLE in 1861 anywhere in Scotland. Just 1861 to start with and if we do find some then we will work through the years.

Some known names are Thomas, Samuel, Stephen, John, Daniel, Agnes, Octavia...

Thanks.

Dave
 

pejay

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#11
I searched for Octavia as the name is unusual and the only one I could find for 1861 was [not sure if it is who you are looking for though] living at -

Railways Co's House
Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire

Thomas Angel 38 head Railway Porter
Mary " 38 wife Railway Porter's wife
Thomas " 16 son Boilermaker [App]
Stephen 6 "
Octavia C 3 daugh
Samuel D 5m son :)
 

DaveHam9

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#12
Hello pejay,

Yes, thank you very much. That is part of the family.

Octavia Clarendon ANGEL Birth: 12 Aug 1857 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark
Father: THOMAS ANGEL Mother: MARY CLEMENT

Samuel Dow ANGEL Birth: 27 Oct 1860 Old Kilpatrick, Dunbarton
Father: THOMAS ANGEL Mother: MARY CLEMMENT

He's moving around a lot for a railway porter. :biggrin:

Please see if you can find any in 1871.

Thanks,

Dave
 

juliejtp

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#14
Hi Dave,

In 1871 there is a Octario Angel born Glasfow occ servant, but her yob is transcribed as 1830. This lady dosnt appear on any other census using Oct**** Angel only your Octavia appears. Also a Mary Angel born Paisley is with a Stewart family are these yours?
 
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juliejtp

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#15
Hi dave,

Maybe the family in 1871

Civil parish Old Kilpatrick
Address Forsky House

Thomas Angel head age 43 occ bondman (borge) born England
Jennie wife age 38 born Anton Dumbartonshire
Samuel D son age 10 born Bouling Dumbartonshire
Agnes C step daughter age 6 born Glasgow
Stephen son age 16 occ Ann merchants clerk born England

All 3 childrens surname transcribed as Anoal
 

DaveHam9

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#16
Hello juliejtp,

Thank you very much. I believe all the ANGEL are mine. As far as I can see all are descendants of Thomas and Mary CLARK.

I would say the 1830 was an error in the transcription and that Octario is definitely my Octavia. May I have that listing please.

Octavia Clarendon ANGEL Birth: 12 Aug 1857 Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark

Octavia dies in 1941 unmarried in Dunoon, Argyll so please see if you can find her all the way through to 1901. Thanks.

Re a Mary that would have to be Mary Clark ANGEL born 19 Feb 1855. She died unmarried in 1923 in Paisley. Please see if you can continue to find her in the listings. Thanks.

Re the family, I have no doubt it is the right family even though Thomas was born in Paisley. Stephen was also born in Paisley:

1855 ANGEL STEPHEN GIFFORD M PAISLEY LOW CHURCH /RENFREW 573/02 0002

Samuel D was born in Bowling:

1860 ANGEL SAMUEL DOW M OLD OR WEST KILPATRICK /DUNBARTON 501/00 0171

I notice Thomas has a new spouse.

Please see if you can find Thomas and family in 1881. Thanks.

Regards,

Dave
 

pejay

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#17
Octavia Angel found in 1881 census working as servant at - 21 Burnbank Gardens, Glasgow Barony, Lanarkshire

John H Hutcheson 53 oil painter & colour manufacturer employing 35 men
Barbara " 67 sister
Janet " 55 sister
Robert " 51 brother oil painter & colour manufacturer
Marion Gowans 38 cook
Octavia Angel 23domestic servant housemaid.

I too noticed Octario but on a......y they had him down as male! so it was probably a very bad transcription.
Not sure about this one either

Thomas Angel 59 ferry boatman
Helen " 49 wife
Samuel " 20 painter
Walter Mcgregor 20 joiner Boarder

this was the only Thomas Angel I could find but his place of birth was given as C. Kent England all others were born in Scotland.

the address is - Elmtree House, Bonhill Road, Bonhill.

looked for her 1891 and 1901 census but couldn't find her perhaps another mistranscription!
 
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DaveHam9

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#18
Hello pejay,

Thank you very much. I bet it does not help to have Octav... as a male :eek:

Kent certainly is not right. Samuel aged 20 is right. But that means a 3rd spouse? It was Mary then a much younger Jennie and now Helen?? :rolleyes:

Please have a go for 1891. Try the same address for Thomas & Helen.

I don't know if Octavia is still in Lanark or in Argyll in 1891.

Thanks.

Dave
 

juliejtp

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#19
Hi Dave,

Octario is down as male.

1871

Civil parish Beith
County Ayrshire
Address Main Street

Octario Angel age 41 male occ general servant domestic born Glasgow

Head of household is a Hugh black occ (transcribed as) Draper Robert Mother :confused: and family plus another servant.
 

juliejtp

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#20
Hi Dave,

1871

Civil parish Paisley Low Church
Address 69, Causeyside

John Lew Stewart head age 48 occ cloth lapper born Paisley
Helen wife age 47 born Ochatter Ayrshire
Jena dau age 14 occ warehouse girl born Paisley
Margaret dau age 12 born Paisley
Charlotte Red dau age 9 born Paisley
Mary Angel lodger age 16 occ warehouse girl born Pailey
 
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