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Beginners help.

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#1
Hi I'm Tracy and I'm trying to trace my paternal grandfathers roots.
The family story about my grandfather is a little vague, as he once said that he didn't want to talk about his early life.

He maintained that his mother was an Irish singer who had a fling with an army officer and was so keen to keep the name NOLAN that he named all his three children with it.

JOHN NOLAN was born in Manchester on 14th October 1906, and his birth was never registered (as far as we know), then he was left with Rachel Shore / nee Howarth / nee Holt at 8 Albert Royd Street, Rochdale. He was raised by Rachel until her death,

Surprisingly, in the 1911 census, John NOLAN, wasn't called Nolan at all, he was listed as John HOPKINS, adopted, born in Manchester - another mystery which is yet to be answered.

When Rachel died, John went to live with her son, Samuel, and daughter in law, Gertie, for a short time and they moved out of 8 Albert Royd Street, round the corner to Dover Street. At some stage between Rachel's death and 1918, John Nolan went to live with Rachel's daughter, Sarah Ellen and her husband Arthur Swain at Roch Street. This was the address given on the statuary declaration paper we have, signed by Arthur Swain in 1918.

At around the age of 12 his birth mother came to collect him and took him back to Manchester so he could work and bring money in for her. She had another male child at this stage, so John had a half brother.

John had other ideas and returned to Rochdale to the family who had brought him up, and at this time we know that he was 'adopted' by Sarah Ellen and Arthur Henry Swain.

We assume that his mother, must have known the adoptive family, as she knew where John was living after 12 years, and are convinced there must have been a family link to the Howarths.. why else would John Nolan be taken in, then passed from Rachel, to Samuel and finally to Sarah Ellen.

My quest is to find my grandfather's true roots and his connection to Rachel, and to see how true the story about the singer and army officer really was?

So far I have found the descendants of Rachel and we have also done a Y chromosome DNA test, where we have found a match with the Manchip family, coming from Somerset. Am trying to find a Manchip that was in the army around Jan/Feb 06 either in Ireland or Manchester area. I can safely say that my gt. Grandfather was a MANCHIP, and my gt. Grandmother must be a Nolan.

Edit (September 2021) - after doing a more recent DNA test myself, I have found 2 x cousins both descend from a Thomas Nolan, b1841 Limerick. He served in the army from 1855 to 1877. He had a son called Thomas b. 1875 Hong Kong.
I am now searching for a potential sister to young Thomas, who could possibly be my gt. Grandmother.
 
Last edited:

rupert

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#2
Re: Introductions

For others following your story here are census indexes.


1911
Address 8 Albert Royds St Rochdale
Parish Rochdale
County Lancashire
Country England
Archive reference RG14
Registration district Rochdale
Registration district number 470
Enumeration district 2
District number -
Sub district Whitworth and Wardle
Sub district number 6
Census reference RG14PN24668 RG78PN1415 RD470 SD6 ED2 SN353
Piece number 24668
Folio -
Page -
Thomas Shore Head Married Male Retired Carter 71 1840 Rochdale Lanc
Rachel Shore Wife Married Female Houshold Work 68 1843 Rochdale Lanc [married 17 year] total number of children 7, 5 living 2 dead [crossed out NONE]
Samuel Richard Howarth Son Married Male Winder On Cotton Mill 39 1872 Rochdale Lanc
Gertrude Howarth Daur In Law Married Female Household Work 26 1885 Rochdale Lanc
Nellie Howarth Granddaughter - Female - 3 1908 Rochdale Lanc
George Harry Howarth Grandson - Male - 1 1910 Rochdale Lanc
Alexander Robinson Grandson Single Male Joiner Piecer 16 1895 Rochdale Lancs
John Hopkins Adopted - Male - 4 1907 Manchester Lanc
John James Polland Son In Law Married Male Cotton Yarn Gasser 28 1883 Bacup Lancs
Clara Polland Daughter Married Female Winder 32 1879 Rochdale Lancs


1901
Street Albert Royds Street
Town -
Parish Rochdale
City -
Country England
County Lancashire
Municipal ward Wuerdle
Registration district Rochdale
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 3842
Folio 53
Page 40
Thomas Shore Head Married Male 61 1840 Carter Corn Mill Smithy Bridge, Lancashire, England Transcription
Rachael Shore Wife Married Female 56 1845 - Rochdale, Lancashire, England Transcription
Samuel Richard Shore Step Son Single Male 28 1873 Cotton Winder On Rochdale, Lancashire, England Transcription
Clara Shore Daughter Single Female 22 1879 Cotton Winder Rochdale, Lancashire, England Transcription
Bertha Shore Daughter Single Female 19 1882 Nurse Girl (Domestic) Rochdale, Lancashire, England Transcription
Alexandra Robinson Grand Son - Male 6 1895 - Rochdale, Lancashire, England Transcription
William Henry Shore Nephew Single Male 36 1865 Cotton Piecer (Disabled) Rochdale, Lancashire, England


1891
House name Watch Hall
Street Millgate
Town -
Parish Wuerdle and Wardle
City Rochdale
County Lancashire
Registration district Rochdale
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 3339
Folio 69
Page 36
Rachel Howarth Head Widow Female 49 1842 - Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth A Howarth Daughter Single Female 16 1875 Cotton Winder Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Sarah E Howarth Daughter - Female 14 1877 Woollen Piecer Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Samuel R Howarth Son Single Male 19 1872 Woollen Warehouseman Rochdale, Lancashire, England


1881
House number 72
Street Halifax Road
Town -
Parish Wuerdle and Wardle
County Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Rochdale
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 4117
Folio 56
Page 3
Rachel Howarth Head Widow Female 38 1843 Laundress Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Mary Jane Howarth Daughter Single Female 16 1865 Cotton Operative Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Thomas W Howarth Son Single Male 11 1870 Scholar Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Samuel R Howarth Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth A Howarth Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Sarah Ellen Howarth Daughter Single Female 4 1877 Scholar Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Mary Holt Mother Widow Female 65 1816 - Rochdale, Lancashire, England
William Hardy Lodger Single Male 21 1860 Wool Salesman (Stapler) Macclesfield, Cheshire, England


1871
House name -
Street 10 Lisle Street
Parish Wardleworth
Town Rochdale
City Rochdale
County Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Rochdale
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 4126
Folio 21
Page 36
George Howarth Head - Male 30 1841 Wool Warehouseman Rochedale, Lancashire, England
Rachel Howarth Wife - Female 28 1843 - Rochedale, Lancashire, England
Mary Jane Howarth Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Rochedale, Lancashire, England
Emily Howarth Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Rochedale, Lancashire, England
Thomas W Howarth Son - Male 1 1870 - Rochedale, Lancashire, England



1st Marriages Sep 1863
Holt Rachel Rochdale 8e 49
HOWARTH George Rochdale 8e 49

2nd Marriages Mar 1894
HOWARTH Rachel Rochdale 8e 46
Shore Thomas Rochdale 8e 46

Marriages Jun 1900
Howarth Sarah Ellen Rochdale 8e 23
Swain Arthur Henry Rochdale 8e 23

Marriages Mar 1907
HOWARTH Samuel Richard Rochdale 8e 15
Wall Gertrude Rochdale 8e 15

Marriages Mar 1908
POLLARD John James Rochdale 8e 114
SHORE Clara Rochdale 8e 114

Rupert
 
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#3
Re: Introductions

Many Thanks for that Rupert. I'm at a loss of where else I could look for information of John Nolan/Swain/Hopkins in his early years to tell me a little more about him.. so if anyone has any ideas that would be great!!
 
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#5
Re: Introductions

Your other 2 threads have been 'soft deleted', as they are duplications of this thread, to avoid confusion.

Steve. (Moderator).:)
Apologies for that Steve, I only copied it as I understood no one could ask for 'help' on the introductions page. Maybe the story should have been on the beginners thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My 'introduction' will give you the outline of my 'brickwall', but I'm basically trying to find the mother and brother of my grandfather.

Its a bit complicated, so please have a read of my story in this thread

If anyone has any ideas of how I can find them, please shout!!

Thanks
 
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stockpot

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#6
I've followed up all sorts of relatives of the 1911 family but can't find a Nolan/Hopkins/Howarth/Holt connection.
Gertrude Howarth, wife of Rachel's son Samuel, filled in the 1911 census. For John under "relationship to head" she has originally put "none" and then crossed it out and changed it to adopted. She obviously thought there was no family connection with the child.
The change to Hopkins is strange but maybe the English/CofE Shore/Howarth family just didn't want to draw attention to the Irish/catholic Nolan name.

Will keep looking!
Elaine
PS, who did John Nolan put as his father on his marriage certificate?
 
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Posts
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#7
I've followed up all sorts of relatives of the 1911 family but can't find a Nolan/Hopkins/Howarth/Holt connection.
Gertrude Howarth, wife of Rachel's son Samuel, filled in the 1911 census. For John under "relationship to head" she has originally put "none" and then crossed it out and changed it to adopted. She obviously thought there was no family connection with the child.
The change to Hopkins is strange but maybe the English/CofE Shore/Howarth family just didn't want to draw attention to the Irish/catholic Nolan name.

Will keep looking!
Elaine
PS, who did John Nolan put as his father on his marriage certificate?
Thanks Elaine. I've also searched and searched the Howarth/Holt/Shore families but found nothing either. Never thought about Irish name being a 'no no'! lol John Nolan put his adoptive father down on his marriage cert.
 

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