Berry Mary Cox & Aldred Richard Johnson - M1945 Birmingham - Help

[scott78saunders]

Hey,

I am trying to see if there is another place I can search online to try and find parents for both Betty Mary Cox (Born 1923 - Kings Norton in Bham) and Alred Richard Johnson - they both got married in Q3 1945 in Birmingham.

I need to find out more about them to take me back to 1911 so I can view the census record and ideally use that as a spring board.

The marriage has been found on Ancestry along with Bettys birth - it looks like her maiden name was Harris.

Anyone off some help please?

Thanks

Scott

 

[horse]

Hi Scott

Welcome to the site.

Hopefully someone will help you to get started very soon.

Geoff

 

[davelambert271]

Betty Mary Cox born jun qtr 1923 Kings Norton
sister ? Dorothy M born Mar qtr 1922

parents - William Cox and Lucy W Harris, married Sep qtr 1922 K.Norton 6d 161

Alfred Richard Johnson born j/m 1927 Birmingham 6d 602
siblings ? William H b 1924 and Ada E born 1931

parents - Alfred Johnson and Gladys B Collin, married 1919 Aston 6d 1181

you may need to obtain the marriage cert of Alfred and Betty to confirm the parents. They can be obtained from the GRO - http://www.gro.gov.uk/GRO/content/certificates/default.asp

dave

 

[scott78saunders]

Dave,

you clearly know what your doing - can I ask how you found this out and what sites you use please?

I take it that there is alot more than just ancestry to search on ?

really do appreciate the reply.

Thanks

Scott

Betty Mary Cox born jun qtr 1923 Kings Norton
sister ? Dorothy M born Mar qtr 1922

parents - William Cox and Lucy W Harris, married Sep qtr 1922 K.Norton 6d 161

Alfred Richard Johnson born j/m 1927 Birmingham 6d 602
siblings ? William H b 1924 and Ada E born 1931

parents - Alfred Johnson and Gladys B Collin, married 1919 Aston 6d 1181

you may need to obtain the marriage cert of Alfred and Betty to confirm the parents. They can be obtained from the GRO - http://www.gro.gov.uk/GRO/content/certificates/default.asp

dave

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
It is always easier if the person being sought has an unusual name or has a 2nd Christian name. You obviously have some details, so firstly I confirmed these details by searching Ancestry, Find my past and the free sites, Family search, FreeBMD and FreeReg. (there is also freecen.
Having found Betty's birth and her mother maiden name of Harris I searched for other births between a Cox and Harris in Kings Norton, then a marriage between the same names just before the first birth. In this case the result I posted was after the first born, but before the 2nd.
I did the same looking for Alfred's parents.
There are many free sites one being the parish clerk of the county concerned ie Lancashire online parish clerks. Another is UKbmd. As well as holding records, it lists other history sites.
Another source is Ancestry trees but you have to be careful as many contail incorrect details

 

[davelambert271]

I've been looking at Alfred Johnson and come up with this. Needs confirming.

There is a army service record for an Arthur Johnson born 1897 Birmingham. I must have another look as I only took brief details, but his next of kin was his mother, Bertha living in Green Lane, Small Heath, Birmingham, and I think he joined in 1915
His no was M302300 ASC, his job at the time a turner at the Lanchester Motor Co

I then found Arthur in the 1901 census with parents Providence and Bertha

-------------------------------------------------

1901 England Census
about Alfred Johnson

Name:
Alfred Johnson

Age:
3

Estimated birth year:
abt 1898

Relation to Head:
Son

Gender:
Male

Father:
Providence Johnson

Mother:
Bertha Johnson

Birth Place:
Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish:
Aston

Ecclesiastical parish:
St Andrew

County/Island:
Warwickshire

Country:
England


Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:



View image


Registration district:
Aston

Sub-registration district:
Deritend

ED, institution, or vessel:
84

Neighbors:
View others on page

Piece:
2864

Folio:
83

Page Number:
32

Household schedule number:
192

Household Members:


Name

Age

Sarah Taylor 51
Kate Taylor 18
Harry Taylor 16
Eliza Henning 25
Thomas Henning 4
John Hemming 2
Providence Johnson 24 S.I.Law, Lab at steelworks, Birmingham
Bertha Johnson 23 (nee Taylor? married 1898, see 1911)
Alfred Johnson 3

-----------------------------------------------
1911 England Census

Name:
Alfred Johnson

Age in 1911:
12

Estimated birth year:
abt 1899

Relation to Head:
Son

Gender:
Male

Birth Place:
Birmingham

Civil Parish:
Aston

County/Island:
Warwickshire

Country:
England

Street address:
5 Fir Terrace Little Green Lane Small Heath Birmingham

Occupation:
School

Registration district:
Aston

Registration District Number:
385

Sub-registration district:
Deritend

ED, institution, or vessel:
33

Piece:
18180

Providence Johnson 34 Gun worker Small Heath
Bertha Sabina Johnson 33 Small Heath
Alfred Johnson 12 Small Heath

married 13 yrs 1 child

So this may have got you into the census years

 

[davelambert271]

Marriages Mar 1898

JOHNSON Providence Aston 6d 322

Taylor Bertha Aston 6d 322


-----------------------------------------

Births Mar 1877

Johnson Providence Aston 6d 313

-----------------------------------------------

Deaths Mar 1944

Johnson Providence 67 Birmingham 6d 393

 

[Bootzy]

Hi Scott,
This should help you go back...

Providence Johnson b 1877 Aston Birmingham on 1891 census
Alfred Johnson 43 b Birmingham a horse driver
Emma wife 42 b same
Frederick son 20 b same road corporation labourer
Phillip son 18 b same – same occupation
Selina daug 16 b same pen stamper
Providence son 14 b same a white spoon polisher
Emma daug 12 b same dom gen servant
Alfred son 10 b same scholar
Charley son 5 b same
At 3 BK, 179 Schofield St, Duddeston, Aston.
Piece:2420 Folio:83 Page Number:13

Providence and Bertha’s Marriage Banns on Ancestry – St Andrew’s Church in the Parish of St Andrew’s in the County of Warwick, Birmingham No: 892
13 January 1898 - Providence Johnson age 21 Batchelor a Bicycle maker at Little green Lane, Father Alfred Johnson a gunsmith
To Bertha Taylor age 20 a spinster same residence and her father Isaac Taylor deceased – Carman, both signed their names in presence of Alfred Johnson and Emma Johnson.

National Probate Calender Index of Wills for Providence Johnson, died 11 March 1944 and Probate 27 May 1944 has Providence Johnson of 183 Green Lane Small Heath Birmingham 9 died 11 March 1944 Administration (with Will) Birmingham 27 May to Bertha Sabina Johnson Widow – effects 748 pounds 15s 10d.

Bertha Sabina Taylor b Jan qtr 1878 Aston Warwickshire and died Sept qtr 1952 Birmingham – her Will has her death 2 July 1952 and Probate 22 Dec 1952 has:
Bertha Sabina Johnson of 183 Green-lanes Small Heath Birmingham Widow died 2 July 1952 at 384 Tessall-lane Northfield Birmingham. Probate Birmingham 22 December to Alfred Johnson Maintenace Turner – Effects 467 pounds 11s 6d

regards
Val

 

[davelambert271]

A word of caution if I may. Val's post seems to confirm this Alfred was the son of Providence and Bertha Sabina Taylor, but you really do need to confirm he is the Alfred who married Gladys B Collin, as although the info posted points this way, there are other possibilities.

Just a little more info gained from Alfred's service record
He was 18yr 2mths on 29/11/1915. was posted to Iraq 22/3/1917 and served in Baghdad Bombay, Durban and Basra where he contracted Maleria. It looks as if he was demobilised 30/3/1920 so if this IS our Alfred he would have had to marry shortly before this in 1919. As he seemed to have several attacks and spent time in hospital, he could very well have been back in the uk on sick leave

dave

 

[scott78saunders]

is there a way of seeing a rough detail of how someone died recently - I believe I have found the death of Alfred Richard Johnson in March 2000 , he died in Westminster according to the Ancestry record however there is nothing else listed.

Anyway I can find out at least some more?

Thanks