Birth before marriage

[Lynn68]

Here's a tricky one.

Isabell Harriett Lockie was born July-Aug-Sept 1853. Her dad was William Henry Lockie. She married William Bennett in 1872 (context for the question)...ok so far then it gets tricky.

According to research her dad William Henry was a bachelor according to the marriage banns I have when he married Harriet Kilby/Baird/Beard (several different spellings) a widower in 1857.

As far as I can see ive got the right William occupations match on marriage banns for daughter and his marriage banns...his dad was called Gilbert deceased in 1857 and listed as a gardener at the time of his sons marriage.

Ive got info for Isabell when she was married but cant find anything for her prior to the marriage on census and electoral registers

But how can that be when he wasnt married before and Isabell was born 4 years before her dad got married!!!!!

Help any suggestions????

 

[barbarajoh]

Do you know her mother's name and where she was born or which area she was married in?

Barbara

 

[Lynn68]

No info on mothers maiden name anywhere, she was born in West London in July 1853. On census records for her marriage she is labelled as Isabell and Gabrell (Williams handwriting wasnt very clear sometimes.

She was married on April 14 1872 and the parish is Bethnal Green, St James the Great

 

[barbarajoh]

So you haven't sent for this birth certificate which would give you her mother?
Her mother may have been Harriet Kilby who was married before to James Beard?


Isabel Harriott Lockie

Date of Registration:

Jul-Aug-Sep 1853

Registration district:

West London

London

Volume:

1c


Page:

48

 

[Lynn68]

AAAh it may be that Isabell was adopted by William, further search shows Harriet was married before to a James Beard, assuming he died sometime between 1852 and 1857.

 

[Lynn68]

Thanks for the confirmation, twigged just before you replied, have only been looking at her today. No I havent sent for the certificate yet, have a list im working through and like to make sure im sending for the right ones before handing over my hard earned dosh.

 

[barbarajoh]

I thought that too Lynn but then found that birth which is in the name of Lockie so you would have to get that try and find out whose child she is. I can't find a birth for a Harriet or Isabelle in the name of Baird or Beard. Have you found Wm in the census before his marriage Harriet Baird nee Kilby.

Barbara

 

[Lynn68]

Hello, ive got William on the 1871 census when he was still living at home, he got married the following year to Isabell Harriet Lockie. He is easy to track, with birth etc.

I agree. Ive searched for Beard, Biard, but not been able to come up with any info on Isabell....its quite frustrating as I know she exists!!!! Found the marriage banns for Harriet and James Beard tho so will keep searching. Trouble is I think I need to prioritise who I search for as ive got so many different lines of enquiry going at the moment and sending for certs is proving to be rather expensive both here and in Ireland.

 

[horse]

Something to ponder...

1851
Civil Parish: Southwark Christ Church
County: Surrey
RD: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-RD: Christchurch
ED: 10; Piece: 1557; Folio: 400; Page: 11

William Lockie 29 [b. Camberwell. Printer Compositor]
Harriet Lockie 26 Wife [b. St. Michael, Middlesex. Dressmaker]
Isabel Kilby 16 Visitor [do, do]

That could be Harriet's sister, she is a witness at their marriage, it looks as though Isabel never married. If this is the correct Harriet, husband must have died 1844-1851 or they split up

Looks like the Kilby family in 1841, wrongly transcribed as Kelley..

Civil Parish: St Benet Gracechurch Street
Hundred: London Within the Walls
County: Middlesex
RD: London
Sub-RD: London South East
ED: 5; Piece: 720; Book: 5; Folio: 5; Page: 4

Thomas Kelley 50 [Occ. Coal something]
Emma Kelley 50
Saml Kelley 25 [Shop man]
Sarah Kelley 25 [Dress maker]
Christopher Kelley 20 [Unable to read occ.]
Emma Kelley 20 [Book folder]
Mary Kelley 20 [School mistress]
Hannott Kelley 15
Eliza Kelley 10
Isabell Kelley 7
Andrew Rickhomb 40 [Inde]
[All BIC]

Dressmaking looks a common factor..

Geoff

Edit: Isabel may have married...

 

[barbarajoh]

That def looks like them Geoff Can you find any of them in 61 which would be the biggest help? I am struggling.

Barbara

 

[horse]

Not found anything for 1861 yet, Barbara... However, Catherine A was b. abt. 1860 Newington, Surrey (1871 census) though I haven't found the birth yet

Geoff

 

[horse]

This looks like Eliza's birth, another one before the marriage

Q3 1856
Lockie Eliza Emma
St Saviour S
1d 6

Geoff

 

[horse]

This would put them in Newington in 1861...

Q1 1861
Lockie Gilbert Thomas
Newington
1d 215

Geoff

 

[horse]

Just thinking about 1861, Gilbert was born Q1 1861, Harriet may have been lying-in hospital or similar; William and children may be with relatives...

Geoff

 

[horse]

It looks as though Christopher in the 1841 census is actually Christophine. Sadly none of the family are there apart from sister Isabel..

1861
Civil Parish: Stepney
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County: Middlesex
RD: Stepney
Sub-RD: Ratcliff
ED: 7; Piece: 284; Folio: 189; Page: 10

Robert Smith 39 [b. London City. Can't read the occ.]
Christopher L Smith 44 Wife [b. do] Image says Christophine
Emma C Smith 15 Dau [do]
Isabel H Kilby 26 S-i-L [do]

Isabel is till with them in 1871.

Geoff

Edit: Robert's marriage entry says he is a 'Pork Cutter'

 

[Lynn68]

Hi guys, thanks for the help. Internet issues had me unable to check in. Will have a look at the above.