Birthplace: Raw, Sussex, England - where is this?

[Inoshiro]

Hi Folks,
I am trying to decipher a birthplace reference in the 1911 census, which reads:

"Raw, Sussex, England"

I'm fairly sure there is no Raw in Sussex, unless it's an abbreviation I am unfamiliar with. Can anyone help me interpret this entry?

The man I hope this entry refers to was born in Wadhurst, Sussex, and his birth was registered at Ticehurst.

John

 

[davelambert271]

checking other people born Raw, they seem to be registered in Crawley

dave

 

[Inoshiro]

Hmmm, now that I look at the image rather than the transcript, this chap is listed as "Sussex, Crawley" too. The Raw could be a transcription error from the manuscript.

Not sure if this is my guy now, in previous census records his birthplace is definitely listed as Wadhurst. I'll see what his Birth cert says when it arrives.

Cheers Dave

 

[davelambert271]

why not post a few details to get a few more eyes looking at it

dave

 

[Inoshiro]

My man is Thomas Pattenden, born 1889 in Wadhurst, later resident in Sevenoaks. His father is Joseph and his mother Louisa. He's my great grandfather Ralph's elder brother.

I can see the family in the census records no problem. By 1911, Thomas is not with the rest of the family, however, there's a Thomas Pattenden of the right age living in Chelsea as a Footman in the home of Lord Belhaven. This is the entry with the "Raw, Sussex, England" birthplace - Crawley on the original census return.

Finally, there's a Thomas Pattenden in the 13th Kensington Battalion, the London Regiment, killed at the battle of Aubers Ridge on 9th May 1915.

What I'd like is to be able to show is that these are one and the same chap (if they are). Any advice on how to proceed would be very welcome.

John

 

[dochines]

Hi John,
I appreciate the difficulty here. I think you need to start with the strongest fact. I suspect that is his parents and brothers names. There is no problem finding them in the 1891 and 1901 census as the family are together, The 1911 census definitely reads Crawley and is transcribed as that on FMP.

Is that the same person, now in Crawley ? It is the only Thomas without a second name with that year of birth. There is another Tom born in Horsham to be wary of

Turning to the death in WW1 again your facts fit well. I wanted to find his army service record amongst the burnt records to see if it confirmed his parents names or an address from which he enlisted. Sadly they do not seem to exist any longer.

You could try the regimental records to see if they can shed any light on Thomas Pattenden and his death. Finally it might be worth looking in Sussex and Kent local papers to see if there report of him being killed in action

Sorry not to have got the proof you wanted but you do have quite strong circumstantial evidence. I do wish those records had not been burnt!

dochines

 

[davelambert271]

the only addition I can see is that Lord Belhaven lives in Chelsea and on the record - Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919 - Thomas's residence is given as Chelsea

dave

 

[dochines]

I will just add that on A..... in the Public trees there are many that list your Thomas Pattenden with brother Ralph and parentsThomas and Louisa nee Winch.

I was pleased to see Ralph's army pension records do exist and he sustained Gun Shot Wounds in both legs and left arm om 17/8/1917

You may be well aware of these others researching your tree but if not and you cannot access the details let me know and i will try to help

dochines

 

[Inoshiro]

Thanks for the help, folks, very much appreciated.

I have seen many other trees on Ancestry that make these connections, and I'm in touch with some of these folks. However, the documentary evidence they are using is the same as I have, and they don't have any family papers or anecdotes to move the case from strongly circumstantial to proven.

I have made really good progress on Ralph's history, I have his discharge papers and a lot of family stories to begin with, got his pension records, and more importantly i have the published history of the 8th Btn. Royal West Kent's so I can trace his movements almost daily across France and Flanders. I hope to get to Kew this year to look at the unit war diaries to see if there's more there.

I looked for Thomas' service records and they are gone, bar his medal index card, which adds nothing really new. It's a shame, as a list of next of kin on the enlistment papers would have clinched it for me. I have ordered his Birth certificate, but I'm sure it will say Wadhurst.

The 1911 census return would have been completed by Belhaven, so perhaps Crawley is an error on his part. We'll never know.

I looked for a death certificate for Thomas, as a date of birth or next of kin on that might have helped, but I cannot find one. I understood that the army completed these for soldiers killed in the western theatre, and I have looked from 1915 up to 1920 without success in the BMD indexes. I wonder if the fact that his body was never found is a factor here - any advice on this would be appreciated.

I have got hold of the digitised war diaries for the 13th Btn, the Kensingtons from the PRO, and Thomas is mentioned several times in it in lists of men participating in various actions and as KIA on a casualty liust for Aubers ridge. This adds a lot of context and detail if this is my relative.

The local paper angle is the one remaining lead I can think of, I think I'll look into that next.

Thanks again for all your help

John