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Brickwall: Walter A. S. STANLEY of ? London 1881- 1944

Barbhafs

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#1
Hi everyone
MY grandfather, Walter Alexander Stanley STANLEY, is a brickwall. Sometimes I even feel like throwing a brick at him! Anyway. The first certificate I have found on him was his marriage to my grandmother, Maria DENT b 1881 of Bottesford, Leic - 17 Jul 1917. He is aged 36, a widower, master mariner. His father is recorded as Francis Stanley STANLEY, also a master mariner. This is the only certainty I have.
Walter was dressed in full military uniform (army - a gunner in the Grenadier Guards) for his wedding, which I thought odd with his seafaring background. We know he served overseas, and was injured. He lost part of one finger, shrapnel wounds to the chest and stomach and was also badly gassed. We also know he had 3 medals from WWI (and my family in the UK threw them out on my grandmother's death!! Along with his birth certificate and army papers) ARGH!
I have been totally unable to find his birth certificate. He celebrated his birthday on 29 Jul and never waivered on his age, so my mother says. I have bought about 7 certificates 5 years either side, but nothing fits with birthdate, fathers - absolutely nothing.
I then tried to find him in WWI. Two researchers - and both men they are adamant is my grandfather is wrong. Wrong ages, wrong fathers and one died before he could have married my grandmother and the other had all his rotten teeth pulled out whereas my grandfather still had every tooth in his head when he died. *crying*
I have spent years and years hunting through anything and everything I can think of. Census, school records - you name it I've tried it. Every possible Walter STANLEY I come across I have religiously tried to track. Nothing.
I then tried to see if I could find his supposed father, Francis Stanley STANLEY. Nothing. I have two probables, but not fussed on either.
The 1st Francis was born in Machiasport, Maine, USA a mariner. He marries an Elizabeth WHITE. I have found them in census up to 1881 and nothing after with a Walter as a child.
The second (and I could almost be persuaded with this one) is born in UK, a mariner - father Aaron, also a mariner. He married a Elizabeth Ann NEWBERRY, daughter of Charles NEWBERRY, a mariner. But same thing - nothing after 1881 showing Walter with them as a child.
I've tried the length and breadth of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. I've tried America and Canada.
I am totally totally stumped where to go from here. Can anyone think of anything I could have missed searching? I do apologise if I have put too much information in my first post. redf)
Thanks in advance (I hope)
Barb H from Brisbane, Australia (it's freezing here!)
 

DaveHam9

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#2
Hello and welcome to the site.


Never too much info. :)

We have knocked a few brick walls down so we'll have a go at this one.

Dave
 

Barbhafs

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#3
Many thanks, Dave :biggrin: I'm not holding out much hope *sigh* He's a tough nut to crack! I will have a bo peep first thing in the morning (my morning that is lol)
Thanks again, and Good night

Barb
 

DaveHam9

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#4
I checked Hugh Wallis site for Stanley Stanley and found no entries to my surprise for London/Middlesex and Leicestershire.

Googling the name will turn up several old posts.

I find this strange, more so than the Stanley Stanley.

A gunner in the Grenadier Guards and a Master mariner.
 
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#5
Hi

Walter's 1st wife was Euphemia Fraser. they married at Edinburgh Registry Office. witness Alice Fraser - next of kin, elder brother John Stanley, Manor St, Chelsea
Info taken from service records


British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s)
WALTER

Last name
STANLEY

Birth year
1880

Birth parish
CHELSEA

Birth town
LONDON

Birth county
ESSEX

Birth country
ENGLAND

Service number
28961

Rank
-

Regiment
Royal Artillery

Document Type
Attestation

Attestation year
1898

Attestation Day
9

Attestation Month
8

Attestation age years
18

Attestation age months
1

Attestation Corps
Royal Artillery

Attestation service number
28961

Discharge Corps
Royal Artillery

Series
WO97 chelsea pensioners british army service records 1760-1913

Box
5983

Box Record Number
60
 

Ellie7

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#7
Issue
Name:
Thomas W Stanley
William H Stanley
Marjorie R Stanley
Myra E Stanley
Kathleen M Stanley


Ellie

Edit-Have you looked Findmypast for a Military record
 
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#9
there is something which does not add up
according to his service records he joined the army on 9.8.98 was posted to S. Africa 6.2.01 then Gibralter 10.12.02, then Malta 25.9.04 and back home 15.3.06. This explains why he is not found on the 1901 census. He is described as a grocers assistant. He was discharged on 8.8.1910. Did he rejoin on the outbreak of war?


Walter Stanley in the 1911 England Census

Name:
Walter Stanley

Age in 1911:
29

Estimated birth year:
abt 1882

Relation to Head:
Head

Gender:
Male

Birth Place:
Chelsea, London, England

Civil Parish:
Kingston on Thames

County/Island:
Surrey

Country:
England

Street address:
95 Gibbon Rd, Kingston On Thames

Marital Status:
Married 10 years 1 child deceased

Occupation:
Postman

Registration district:
Kingston

Piece:
3515

Walter Stanley 29
Euphemia Stanley 32

It is posted that his father was Francis. I cannot find this man. The 1891 census gives
Joseph 64 London stone mason, Sophia 58 Wilts Confectioner, Arthur 14, Ernest 11, Walter 10, Rose 7 James 3
An elder brother John is given as next of kin on his service record in 1898

1881
Father:
Joseph Stanley

Mother:
Sophia E. Stanley

Street address:
29 Cale St

Registration district:
Chelsea

Piece:
82

Folio:
115

Page Number:
47

Joseph Stanley 52
Sophia E. Stanley 38
Josephine E. Stanley 15
Joseph G. Stanley 14
Sarah S. Stanley 12
Mary A. Stanley 10
John P. Stanley 9
Alice M. Stanley 8
Chas.A. Stanley 6
Arthur R. Stanley 4
Ernest Stanley 1
Cath.N. Stanley 42

the double barrelled name of Stanley does not seem to be used, Joseph was a stone mason not a mariner and Walter a grocers assistant and postman. Sophia was a confectioner
Euphemia was born in Edingburgh and was with Walter on his postings

Ellies post of his marriage to Euphemia I presume was in Edinburgh in Jan/Feb 1901 just before he was posted.
 

Ellie7

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25 January 1901 Marr.Gunner Royal Garrison Artillery

at 12 Society Chamers Street,Edinburgh,in presence of Alice Fraser,Mrs Margaret Brodie.Both staying at 3 West Place,Edinbrough.He's 21 ,she's 22 ,Batcholor/Spinster .

Joseph Stanley ,builder (Deceased)SophiaStanley nee Jackson (deceased)
Thomas Fraser ,Shop Porter,Euphemia Fraser nee Fraser

By Warrant of Sherriff Substitute of the Lothians and Peebles,dated 25 January 1901,signed 25 January 1901 at Edinbrough


Ellie
 
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#12
Deaths Sep 1896
Stanley Joseph 65 Chelsea

Deaths Dec 1897
Stanley Sophia Elizabeth 54 Chelsea 1a 276


this ties in with the marriage in 1901 and that John was named as next of kin in 1898
 
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Ellie7

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#13
1891
Name:
Thomas Fraser
Age:
45
Estimated birth year:
abt 1846
Relationship:
Head
Spouse's name :
Euphemia Fraser
Gender:
Male
Where born:
Edinburgh
Registration Number:
685/3
Registration district:
Canongate
Civil Parish:
Edinburgh Iron Church
County:
Midlothian
Address:
35 Niddry St
Occupation:
Shop Porter
ED:
97
Household schedule number:
24
LINE:
1
Roll:
CSSCT1891_
Name
Age
Thomas Fraser 45
Euphemia Fraser 45 -c1846Bonnyrigg
Thomas Fraser 16 -c1875 Edinburgh
Euphemia Fraser 12
Jessie Fraser 7
William Fraser 5

Not finding a death for Euphemia Stanley nee Fraser
Ellie
 
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#16
I have just found your tree which confirms all that has ben posted so far. You have the parents of Walter as being Joseph and Sophia, not as you posted as Francis and have his 1st marriage to Euphemia although you have a different place, not Edinburgh.
There has not been any reference to mariners, or guards for either Joseph or Walter
I suspect Walter may have re enlisted at the start of the war so perhaps this is where he joined the guards.

dave
 

Ellie7

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Hi,

Death 1931 - District Prestonpans and Cockenzie East Lothian

Stanley Euphemia other surname Fraser
Age 52
Widow of Walter Stanley,postman.24 sept 1931 found dead in bed,usual address 10 North Richmond Street,Edinburgh.Informant Reginald Stanley ,son.Same address as mother.

I don't think this is the right one

Ellie
 

juliejtp

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#18
The occupation of Walter was also a postman. It does need looking into though. It may account for the change of details Walter has given if he was still married when married for the 2nd time.
 
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#19
Hi Ellie We need some comments fromBarbhufs. The death you posted is the Walter we have been posting about. When he joined the army in 1898 he wasn't married, but married an Euphemia Frazer before 1906 in Edinburgh. He was posted abroad in Feb 1902 and she went with him On the 1911 Census Walter was a postman married 10 yrs to Euphemia

some of the problems are that the only record found for Walter A S Stanley is his 2nd mge and death and Parents were Joseph and Sophia not Francis

As highlighted by Julie everything seems to tally until Walters 2nd marriage. Did he have an affair and make up details. Being in the Marines or Guards and posted away
would make an ideal cover story - just a thought
 
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