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can't find marriage, please help

Location
Whitley Bay
From
England
Hi, I have been looking for the marriage of my Great, Great, Great grandparents and have found nothing. I don't understand why i can't see it.
He was a chief of police in Derby so I am assuming he would have been married if he put it down on a census and birth certificates of his children.

There names are
He - Thomas Whieldon or Wheeldon born 1830 in Milton, Derby
She - Anne Elce born 1841 in Lea, Derbyshire.

They have their first child in March 1863 - Sarah Elizabeth.
The 1861 census has them as married but without children at this point.

I have searched through years and years of marriage entries for Wheeldon, Whieldon, Else and Elce but can not find a matching pair. Am I doing something wrong, have a missed it? Please if anyone can help I would be so grateful.

thank you
Lisa
 
Hi Lisa

I’m not having any luck either finding the marriage on Freebmd or A........y.
Found their marriage in the Derby newspaper.

The Derby Mercury (Derby, England), Wednesday, June 13, 1860; Issue 3569.
MARRIAGE
On the 2nd instant, at Ardwick, by the Rev. Mr. Gutterage,
Mr. Thomas Wheeldon, of Derby, to Miss Anne Elce,
daughter of Mr. Thomas Elce, of Ardwick.

cheers
crankypants
 
Hi, my name's Brenda, and I'm going back to another thread of yours, as well as this, which I found tonight via Google.Thomas Whieldon and Ann Elce were my gt gt grandparents. I could not find their marriage details until checking out messages in this thread, and have now found it. Thank you! Thomas Whieldon's daughter, Sarah Elizabeth, married my gt grandfather, Thomas Forskut Shotton in Belper, Derbyshire.(poss. at Belper reg. office)They had 2 daughters, Florence and (Lilian)Maude,who was my grandmother. She was born in 1885 and her mother deserted her children when Maude was abt 6 days old, ie around mid-August 1885,so the story goes. Thomas Shotton brought up the 2 girls on his own, and Sarah Elizabeth never came back, but we believed she was still alive for many years and it was a source of great scandal and embarrassment to the family, esp. as Thomas Whieldon was a police officer! Acc to his will of 1915(he died in 1919)he seems to suspect she had other children from another relationship, and requests that beneficiaries should only be her legitimate children! He did leave a legacy to Sarah Elizabeth, though, but whether it was ever claimed, I simply don't know. Further details are on my Neal family tree on Ancestry, but I've recently made this private. I can invite you as Guest if you like. I've been searching for a clue like yours for years, so I do hope we've found the right people at last, and I can find out more about my missing gt grandmother! And so can you! Dates quoted in all the messages seem to fit, so thanks everyone, and let's hope we can find out more.It's highly likely she changed her name, and more than once, and I'd love to know what happened to Lily/Sarah Eliz. or whoever! When did she die? are there photos of her? Thomas F Shotton died in 1939( nr Xmas - reg as 1940) and my grandmother Maude Neal(nee Shotton) in 1974, never knowing what really happened to her mother. Further details supplied happily on request! Brenda.
 
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Hi Brenda

Thank you so much for getting in touch, this is fantastic.
Yes Sarah Elizabeth - where to start? this is going to sound weird but it is all true...
she marries Thomas Shotton in 1882 and has 2 children as you have said Florence 1883 and Maude 1886. She leaves them and then lives with a man called Arthur Bell who she doesn't marry but with whom she does have 2 more children - called Maud 1892 and Flora 1893. She also leaves him but this time takes Maud and Flora with her and remarries (bigamously) to a man names Sydney Booth in 1896. Her name on this certificate is Lily Forsket and she calls herself a widow. She keeps calling herself Lily which we don't fully understand, although the name has passed down in the family a bit. She goes on to have 5 more children with them and stays in this marriage/family for the rest of her life.

Getting through all of this part of her life was so tricky thankfully this forum helped me out.
I have the certificates for her marriages and the birth certificates for Maud and Flora (the second ones).
As for Sarah she was there when Maud married my great granda. I will check with my Granda when she died but I do know that she was moved into a home and died within 2 weeks of being there. None of her children wanted to take her in apart from Maud - I think she was difficult?!

I followed through the census and knew that Thomas Shotton brought the girls up alone. I can't imagine how hard that must have been.

If there is anything else you can tell me about the Whieldons or Elce that would be lovely.

thanks again for getting in touch
thanks
Lisa
 
Hi Lisa, thanks SO MUCH for all that - you can't think how long it has taken me to find this out, and to simply stumble across it by typing Sarah Elizabeth Whieldon into Google was absolutely amazing! I'd tried this before several times and had no luck till now. Sadly, I can tell you very little abt the Whieldons, as I only met one of them(Fanny, S.E. 's sister) at a family funeral, when she was a very sweet, very old lady, abt 1957 when I would have been 13. she married an Arthur Drakely, also v nice, and was living in Birmingham. Thomas Whieldon was born in Milton, staffs. not Milton, derbys, which put me off, but I did find it quite recetly, and it's just north of Burslem.My Grandma(Maude) did talk abt Grandpa Whieldon quite often, though and he left her money, as well as her sister's 2 surviving daughters(one of whom went missing abt 1917, mystery only recently solved via Ancestry.co.uk)and Sarah herself, but no idea if she ever claimed it. The missing child, also named Florence, surname Hood, orphaned by WW1, didn't, apparently, and when her elder sister Edna Hood died in 1961, I'm certain my Grandma said it had never been claimed. The Elces are complete mystery, as only just found them, but will work on it. They originated in Derbyshire, so the Ardwick,Manchester bit is interesting and relates to other things I've found.I'd really like you to see my Ancestry files,as there are many stories & photos, but don't know if I can e mail you direct to pass on the details. I was so gobsmacked to find your stuff on this website that I jumped straight in without studying the protocol first.However, you may be able to contact me indirectly via the Ancestry.co.uk website and I could then invite you as Guest to Neal family tree. I had to make my tree private recently, as someone had been poaching massive quantities of stuff without asking, including details of myself, my children, my late husband his family in India etc etc and as far as I know, was no relation at all.
Re Sarah herself - I'd be deeply grateful if you could find ANY information at all re her death, any pictures etc and anything else you might know. In1960s or 1970s, my uncle(her grandson) discovered some letters relating to her from a private detective(Agatha Christie has nothing on our family) in the attic, saying she been sighted playing the piano in a pub somewhere, but didn't see the date of these. While he was reading them, the phone/doorbell rang, he went to answer it, and when he got back tothe attic, Grandma had either destroyed or hidden the stuff, and nobody ever found it!At least he realised she'd been alive for ages after she left.In the 1970s, my mother met an old lady from Quarndon who remembered the scandal, tho not firsthand, and she told her Sarah had run off with a man and gone to Sunderland(I'm certain it was). The last doesn't tie in with what you found, but there is still a gap between her leaving Thomas and her fetching up in Wolstantion with Arthur Bell. The old lady said the man had thrown her out, and she'd drifted back to Derby and may have been living on the streets. Thomas didn't want her back, but may have tried to support her for a while(hence, possibly the letters).So maybe she then went to the Potteries, perhaps in search of a Whieldon relative who might take her in, and ended up with Arthur Bell. I've checked the 1911 census and can't find any of them - Sarah, Sydney Booth or the children, or even the address of 1901 census, so where did they go?(Sunderland, possibly?) Did they/she change names again? was the house demolished? I'd like to know when your granda married Maud2. I'd love to see any certificates relating to marriages and births etc. If we could exchange e mail addresses, maybe you could attach them for me - let's see what can be done. Likewise, there is stuff I could send you.
I can well believe Sarah was a difficult woman - my grandma was,too, tho considering all this, it's hardly surprising. She did have many good points, however! Tom Shotton was a very kind man, and well loved. He had a hard time.Maybe Sarah was too young and irresponsible when they married.There was also an accident regarding Maude as a baby - was this why she ran away? did she think Maude had died and didn't stop to find out? Grandma's first name was actually Lilian, but she was known by her second name of Maud(e). Maybe that explains Lily.Could tell you a bit more some other time. Please DO get in touch again. Regards, Brenda.
 
Sarah elizabeth Whieldon was my GT-Gt-Grandmother through one of her children to Arthur Bell. She died in 26.1.1950 and is buried at Church bank Cemetery in Wallsend, Tyne and Wear. Grave No 165 though there is no headstone.

My original interests were those of her mother Anne Elce who married Thomas Whieldon though I do have certs and some local knowledge of sarah. I do have a very old and many times copied photo of Sarah.

I only found out about the Shotton connection very recently and about her children to him only tonight!

I do know of two children to Arthur Bell and 4 more to Sydney Booth. If I can help with any info I would be more than Happy.
Gary
 
Hello Gary
Sarah Elizabeth Whieldon(nee Shotton) was my gt grandmother through her first legit, marriage to Thomas Whieldon. Her 2nd daughter was my grandmother, Lilian Maude Shotton, known as Maude.If you look at the previous posts, you will see the story thus far! She allegedly left her husband and 1st 2 children when my grandmother was about 6 days old and never returned. I have never managed to find a photo of Sarah and have always wanted desperately to know what she looked like, so if you could let me see one, I would be so pleased! I have a photo in a tiny broken locket which we thought could be her, but going by the hairdo, thought more likely to be her mother, Anne Elce. I could send you a copy of this as an e mail attachment, if you like, and you could perhaps send one of Sarah in exchange, by way of comparison. I could also let you see my Ancestry.co.uk tree as Guest if you like. Sarah seems to have been something of a family scandal, certainly by Victorian standards, anyway, and was clearly a bit of a goer as well as a bolter, as they used to say! She certainly messed up some lives, including her own, by the sound of things and my grandmother never EVER mentioned her. But then, she never knew her. Luckily, her father was very kind and brought his 2 girls up happily, but I think she was always haunted by the missing mother. Took me years to find out all this and would love to learn more. Regards, Brenda
 
Hello Brenda. So nice to hear from you.
Sarah died 8 years before I was born so I never met her. However My Mum was 21 when Sarah died and knew her quite well. My Mum died in 1989 but I have occasionally tried to take the family tree forward. Our initial interest was spiked because my Mum was always told that Sarah's grandfather was Sir John Elce of Bowhill in Derbyshire. That's how my Gt Grandmother worded her obituary in the local paper,also mentioning Thomas Whileldon. We never did find Him .I can let you have a transcript if you wish. Family Lore said Sarah had ran away from home to join the stage. I was told Lily Bell and later Lily Booth were both stage names. My grandmother was called Lily and my sister has it as a middle name.She was apparently a very accomplished piano player and it was said she played alongside all the Talkies in the cinemas of the day. No-one in the family had any idea that Sarah had been married before she met My Gt-Gt grandfather Arthur Bell. It wasn't until I managed to get a copy of Thomas Whieldons will and saw that he was calling her Shotton that I even looked for another marriage. I always suspected that she never married again after Thomas Shotton and was surprised to see the bigamous marriage to Sidney Booth. Yes , you could say she got around a bit!! There was some talk of one of the children losing a finger in a mangle in servants quarters but I'm not sure if that was one of the Children to Thomas Shotton or not.

I have visited Derbyshire and the Manchester area quite a bit over the years and managed to get the Elce/Else line back to Ralph Else in 1729. Incidentally I had an email from someone about ten years ago who shares Ralph as an ancestor.

The photo I have came from Mums stuff and I know she got it as a copy from a family member who was also reluctant to talk about Sarah. The original was no better than this I'm afraid. It's no surprise it was all so secretive after abandoning her children.

I'm guessing she spent most of her life after Leaving Thomas and the kids in the Kidsgrove area of Staffordshire as my Gt Grandmother Flora was born there and my Grandmother was born Wolstanton area in 1913. At some point after that and before 1930 when my Grandmother got married up here they moved to the North East. Flora lived in an upstairs flat just off the ship yard in Wallsend and my Grandmother lived in the flat below.

If you PM me an email address I'll send you this picture as I don't think this site hosts pictures. I've sent you my email address


Thanks
Gary
 
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I'll just leave this here. It may help someone. I've just realised I was born in the same flat as Sarah Elizabeth. Probably the same room. Spooky


Newcastle Evening Chronicle 28.1.50

Booth(Wallsend)
193 benton Way Residence of her daughter mrs Rogers Jan 26 .Aged 87 Years
Sarah Elizabeth, Beloved Wife of the late Sidney Booth
Daughter of the Late Superintendent Thomas Whieldon of Derbyshire Constabulary.
Grandaughter of the late Sir John Elce of Bowhill,Derbyshire
Internment at Wallsend Cemetery on Monday (30 Jan) at 2.30. Funeral private.

Newcastle Evening Chronicle 26 jan 1951

Booth Wallsend memories of a mother died 26 Jan 1950.
Remembered always by Daughter Flo, family, at rest.



I'm pretty sure now that Sir John Elce never existed.
 
Thanks for message via e mail. For the benefit of anyone else looking for Sarah Elizabeth Whieldon, nee Shotton, also known as Lily Bell and Sarah Booth, I am another of her gt grandchildren and have researched her thanks to messages posted here and on Ancestry. There seem to be varying versions of her life, but she was certainly a colourful character! We do know that she was a pianist, and puts this down as her profession on her (bigamous) marriage certificate to Sydney Booth. (Wolstanton, 1896)She claimed to be a widow and had renamed herself Lily Forskett. Quite by chance, about 4 years ago, I typed her name into Google just for the hell of it, and came up with a newspaper article as a sort of Anniversary Story thing, from a paper in New Zealand, of all places, about a case from Burslem Police Court, when 'Sidney Booth of Kidsgrove was summoned by Sarah Elizabeth Shotton for an affiliation order in respect of 4 children. It claimed she had been married many years ago in Derbyshire, but left her husband after some time, and travelled the country giving music lessons. Her first husband(ie my gt grandfather, Thomas Shotton) being reported dead( he definitely wasn't!) she married Booth 10 year ago and 4 children were born to them. The first husband had now reappeared on the scene(really?) and she and her 2nd husband parted and she now sought and order for maintenance of the children. The first husband having given evidence, the magistrate made an order for a payment by 2nd husband of 2s a week for each child.'
- So this would have been the case Lisa had heard about, I imagine. There is no mention of the equally cuckolded Mr Bell, and no date on the actual hearing, but I guessed it would have been 1906. (Paper quoted as 29th Nov. 1906)It looks as if she and Mr Booth got back together eventually, or at least stayed in touch, although he is missing from the 1911 census, and Sarah goes to the US/Canada and comes back under the heading Charities(destitute?) just before the First World War after which she seems to stay in the Tyneside area for the rest of her life. And quite a life it was, by the look of it!
Brenda
 
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