Catherine DELANEY, Templederry, cousin of Anne and Mary TIERNEY

[MudgeeClarke]

Hello:

Newbie, with a request for help, please.

FACT: My GGM, Catherine DELANEY arrived Australia on the "BEE" 6th January 1856. I have the Immigrants List and the Immigration "Inspection" page copies. Catherine was "20yrs, Templederry, Queens Co., (parents) Andrew and Catherine Both Dead, RC, Reads, 2 first cousins Anne and Mary TIERNEY in Sydney, (health) Good, Paid One Pound". The "Immigrants List" sheet says the same and adds, "Farm Servant". I assume Catherine was born c1836.

****Edited**** Templederry above is more likely TempleHARRY

FACT: There is an Ellen DELANEY, 22, shown on the "BEE" and the NSW records says "and sister", but I have no evidence that Catherine came with a sister. The Immigrants List mentioned above shows "Gowran, Kilkenny" and "father dead, mother living in Sydney" so I think Catherine was not related to this person.

FACT: Ann (sic) and Mary TIERNEY, 18 and 20 respectively, arrived on the "ELLENBOROUGH" 1853.

There is later family history such as baptisms etc which show Anne or Mary TIERNEY participating in baptisms etc. TIERNEY, PRIEST, FITZPATRICK feature often.

FACT: Catherine married my GGF, Richard CLARKE, 18th November, 1863, in the RC Church, Mudgee, NSW (Cert.2413/500). No parental information or birthplaces recorded. (Mudgee was 'frontier' gold rush country then.)

According to a history of Fitzpatrick and Tierney which I have, Catherine DELANEY's father was Andrew DELANEY and the mother Catherine CORMACK. No other details.

This history says that John TIERNEY married Anne DELANEY 3 February 1823 in DUNKERRIN, Offaly, Irl. Both had died before 1853 when their 4th and 5th children went to Australia. The suggestion is that Anne DELANEY and Catherine's father Andrew DELANEY were brother and sister, hence the "2 first cousins in Sydney" for Catherine.

My PROBLEM: I cannot find where Andrew DELANEY and Catherine CORMACK were married, and where Catherine DELANEY, my GGM, was born (along with all the other history). I can only assume that they lived close by the TIERNEY familes. Anne and Mary TIERNEY (and other siblings) were born BALLYDONOUGH, Kings Co.

****Edited****Dunkerrin, TempleHARRY, and Ballydonough seem to be coming together as the location for Catherine DELANEY's birth, and the RC church wedding of ANDREW DELANEY and CATHERINE CORMACK. Would really appreciate any assistance with this marriage and Catherine's baptism etc. ******

I'm posting this hoping that some kind person has already researched this family, or has the tools to track the marriage of DELANEY/CORMACK sometime before c1836. Perhaps I can get a lead, at least. The 'usual' IGI does not help me too much.

Any ideas, please.

Cheers, Colin

 

[Siobhan]

Hi Colin.

I've had a little root around for you and hope the following gives you some clues or leads to follow up.

First off, you say Catherine Delaney is recorded as being from Templederry, Queen's County (now co. Laois). There are Templederrys in co. Tipperary and co. Wexford but not co. Laois. Admittedly, Tipperary is the neighbouring county but I don't think she is from there.

The reason? Anne and Mary Tierney are recorded as being from Ballydonagh in King's County (now co. Offaly). That's easy enough. It's a townland in the parish of Templeharry.

You can check these places out at http://www.logainm.ie, a new free site (government funded).

Templeharry/Templederry. Surely too similar for it to be a coincidence?

Taking that a bit further, I had a look at Griffiths Valuation for King's County. (Another free new site: http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_start.php) Bear in mind that the research for Griffiths Valuation was carried out in Kings in 1853/4, so probably too late for Anne and Mary's parents to be showing up as alive. (Indeed, the two girls may have emigrated by the time the researchers arrived). There are 14 Tierney familys in Templeharry (none of them John), and there are two in Ballydonagh: Michael Tierney and Darby Tierney.

There are no Delaney families recorded in Griffiths Valuation for King's County.

In Queens there are a handful, but I can't spot any clues there.

So where does this leave you? I'd suggest you concentrate your efforts in records for King's County/Offaly and, on the assumption that your ancestors were Roman Catholic, aim to research the parish records for the Ballydonagh area which is Dunkerrin parish in the diocese of Killaloe. (Dunkerrin covers parts of both co Offaly and co Tipperary.) Baptism and marriage registers survive for Dunkerrin from January 1820 so you may be able to find the births of Catherine Delaney and Ann and Mary Tierney and the weddings of their parents.

Microfilms of the Dunkerrin registers are freely available at the National Library in Dublin or they can be ordered and viewed for a small charge at your local LDS Family History Centre. Alteratively, if your pockets are deep, you could try Irish Midlands Ancestry at http://www.irishmidlandsancestry.com.

The other online source of records http://www.brsgenealogy.com doesn't currently have any records for Offaly. Keep checking back as they are adding more all the time but it's not necessarily a cheap option.

If you're new to Irish genealogy I'd also recommend this new site as a good place to start your research: http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com.

I hope this helps and wish you the best of luck with your research.

Siobhan

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Dear Siobahn !

You have given me so much new information to review, and have put it so plainly; I am indebted to you. So very kind.

I see how TempleDERRY and ..HARRY can be easily mixed when reading the practically illegible documents.

I would say that the strongest information I have really is as it relates to TIERNEYS, and Ann(E) and Mary arrived 12 Oct 1853 via "ELLENBOROUGH" in Sydney so I imagine that voyage began some 3 months beforehand at least, say late July.

John TIERNEY and Anne DELANEY were indeed married 3 February 1823 in the RC Parish of Dunkerrin, witnessed by Patrick DELANEY and James ?LOWEY? poss. ?LAWRY?. The first son Michael TIERNEY was baptised Ballydono(u)gh, Parish of Dunkerrin, 17 Jan 1826, and is likely the Michael you reference. Michael's sponsors, by the way, were a Daniel TIERNEY and a Mary DELANEY.

Although Anne and Mary went earlier to Australia, Michael and the other five TIERNEY children (24 yrs ~ 9 yrs old) went to Australia arriving 22 Aug 1856 on the 'DAVID McIVER". They were recorded on arrival "Ballydonough, Kings Co, RC, parents John and Ann both deceased."

Interesting that Dunkerrin covers parts of Offaly and Tipperary Co. There are anecdotal stories of Tipperary.

Anyway, you surely have given me some brilliant leads, and I will spend some days as I get time, looking through these websites etc.

Wonderful for you to provide this, and thanks again.

Colin

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Just an update to keep the thread moving ...

I have a question ...

I found a record (attached) for a Catherine DELANEY of Bricane, father Andrew, and "about the right time and place", but the mother's name is not what I was wanting eg Catherine Cormack; instead, Kitty Delaney.

My questions .... is Kitty ever seen in Irish Records as a derivation of Cathy/Catherine??? and, are maiden names usually shown ... ie, is this person actually showing a maiden name or a married name I wonder??

Any thoughts, please.
Colin

--

 

[MudgeeClarke]

By the way....

I was sent some wonderful information about the related TIERNEY family with all the baptism dates, names etc. if anyone has an interest in that family.

I also discovered that because the search location is astride the border of two counties, I should look in N.Tipperary, not Queens.

Cheers, Colin

 

[Siobhan]

Hi Colin

Kitty is a very common pet name for Catherine/Kathleen.

As to the surnames.... Yes, maiden names are usually shown. But when I've looked through parish baptism registers I've come across plenty of instances where the priest hasn't recorded the mother's maiden name.

This leaves your next step a bit unsure. It is possible that young Andrew Delaney married young Catherine Delaney (I've come across such as situation before, with a different surname) but not as likely as that the priest enjoyed a little too much of the celebratory wine and forgot to ask the mother's surname. It's also possible that the transcriber lost concentration.

A look at the actual entry in the register may solve the riddle. I don't think a professional genealogist would charge much to do that.

All the best
Siobhan

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Hi Siobhan:

Appreciate the note, ESPECIALLY because Kitty could be Catherine ... .

I'll see if I can track down a kind soul who would only want a small sum of folding stuff to look at that register and give me the actual information... (if I can be sure there is no more celebratory wine involved.... ;-) )

C.

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Hello All:

Still on the track of my GGM, Catherine DELANEY.

Just to restate what I absolutely know (and what is posted here already) :
My GGM, Catherine DELANEY arrived Australia on the "BEE" 6th January 1856. I have the Immigrants List and the Immigration "Inspection" page copies. Catherine was "20yrs, Templeharry(sp), Queens Co., (parents) Andrew and Catherine Both Dead, RC, Reads, 2 first cousins Anne and Mary TIERNEY in Sydney, (health) Good, Paid One Pound". The "Immigrants List" sheet says the same and adds, "Farm Servant". I therefore assume Catherine was born c1836.

I wonder if I can get anywhere by going via the TIERNEY history?

What I have been told is that John TIERNEY who died bef 1853 in Ireland, married Anne DELANEY 3 February 1823 in Dunkerrin, Offaly. (She also died bef. 1853 which is when the Tierney children went to Australia). Witnesses to the marriage, Parish of Dunkerrin, were Patrick DELANEY and James LOWEY.

As far as I know, John and Anne Tierney produced 10 children between 1826 and 1844.

The 4th and 5th born, MARY b. 28 December 1832, and ANNIE (sic) b. 19 August 1835, both in Ballydonough, Kings Co.

These were the two cousins who were waiting in Sydney to receive Catherine DELANEY.

Mary Tierney later married Bernard FITZPATRICK, 1860, Sydney NSW, and Annie Tierney later married Thomas PRIEST, 1860, Mudgee NSW.

Anne DELANEY is almost certainly the aunt of Catherine DELANEY, my GGM, as Anne was likely the sister of Catherine's father, Andrew DELANEY.

Hoping to find someone researching this particular family of TIERNEYs, so that I may learn more of the DELANEY family.

Cheers,

Colin

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Just an update in case anyone else drops in to this thread.

Andrew Delaney married Catherine Cormack. (Kitty Delaney then, I suppose). Andrew's sister married Tierney.

Bricane is a poor spelling of Brickanagh, Templeharry, Kings County [Offaly], and Brickanagh is in the Parish of Dunkerrin (RC), which is in Tipperary County. ))

There are still Tierneys and Delaneys listed in today's telephone directory around Brickanagh village, and Dunkerrin ...

 

[Heidistu]

I think I might have some information for you.

I found a birth record for a Catherine Delaney ... born in 1835 in Co. Tipperary (North) in the parish of Dunkerrin (Roman Catholic). The father is listed as Andrew Delaney and the mother Kitty (no maiden name listed).

To see the full record you would have to join the rootsireland.ie website and pay €5. This should give you the mothers maiden name, the full date of birth and possibly the sponsors. Some records also give the street address of the parents.

Its possibly worth a look.


The only marriage record I found for Andrew Delaney that might match is to a Nell in Co. Kilkenny in 1832.


There are 2 Andrew Delanys (Delaney without the 'e') listed in the Griffiths Valuation in 1854. Both in the parish of Kinnity in Kings County (Offaly).

You can search the Griffiths Valuation for free on http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

It even has a map where you can see the plot of land your ancestors lived on.

 

[MudgeeClarke]

Many many thanks for your kind assistance.

I will attach the 'Church Baptism Record' (fingers crossed) which seems to show everything I know. However, the mother is shown as 'Delaney' even though I am fairly sure that she was a CORMACK.

I will look at the Griffiths again, but if you look further down this thread you will see that there were no Delaney families showing in the county.

In the Baptism record, the address is 'Bricane' and I have been told by a researcher that it is very probably Brickangh - a very small village (a crossroads and some buildings) a few miles NNW of Moneygall and NW of Dunkerrin.

Still 'stumped' for a wedding, though. Really appreciate your help and advice. Do you think there is a way to use the sponsors as a pointer??

Cheers,

Colin