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David family Kent
- Thread starter mercedeskim
- Start date
Hi,
The Kent online parish clerks have resources for researching. Egerton comes under the Parish of West Ashford. See link below.
http://www.kent-opc.org/parishlist.html
Julie
The Kent online parish clerks have resources for researching. Egerton comes under the Parish of West Ashford. See link below.
http://www.kent-opc.org/parishlist.html
Julie
Dear Mercedeskim
I'm not sure if this is relevant to the 'Morgan David' you mention as being born in Egerton Kent in 1756, but I know of (and am related to) a Morgan David that died in Frindsbury Kent in 1821. Given the oddity of the name (in Kent), it seems possible that the two are the same. Let me know if you want to exchange details.
I'm not sure if this is relevant to the 'Morgan David' you mention as being born in Egerton Kent in 1756, but I know of (and am related to) a Morgan David that died in Frindsbury Kent in 1821. Given the oddity of the name (in Kent), it seems possible that the two are the same. Let me know if you want to exchange details.
Hello Kim and Penny
I’m truly delighted to read your messages!
It sounds as though you have done a lot of work on Morgan, and that you at least, Penny (from your list of surname interests) are related to him through the same Beaney route as myself.
You will probably already know all or most of what’s below, but I set it out nevertheless in case it’s of any interest.
Morgan David is one of my great great great grandfathers. I’m descended from Harriet, the fifth (so far as I can tell) child of his second wife. Harriet was christened in Frindsbury in 1819 and died (rather spectacularly) at Leeds, near Maidstone in Kent on 24.09.1863.
I know (I think) that Morgan’s first wife was a Mary, and that they had a child, presumably their first son, in December 1797, and baptised Morgan David at Dartford in Kent in January 1798. Thereafter Mary died at a time and place unknown to me.
Morgan then married an Elizabeth Kinkell in Chalk near Gravesend in Kent on 07.06.1804. I know (I think) that Morgan and Elizabeth had one child - Richard - christened in 1805 in Bexley, Kent, and then five more, including Harriet, baptised in Frindsbury between 1812 and 1821. Morgan died and was buried at Frindsbury in 1821. I haven’t managed to find out whether Elizabeth moved and/or remarried and/or died soon thereafter.
Where it is mentioned (in one of his children’s marriage record), Morgan’s occupation is given as ‘basket-maker’, and that’s a calling typical of the travelling folk in the south-east. This is reinforced by the nature of the family that Harriet married into - the Beaneys - who were likewise semi-itinerant, moving around Kent from farm to farm during the late summer harvests. At least one other David family lived in Frindsbury at the same time as Morgan and Elizabeth’s. They were also basket-makers and it seems likely that they were related to Morgan.
As regards Morgan’s children, I have no information about the first four: Morgan (ch1797), Richard (ch1805), Mary Ann (ch1812), or Matilda (ch1814).
The fifth, Hannah (ch1816), married a James Richardson in Cuxton in Kent in 1841, is with him there in the 1841 census, and is also with him in Strood, Strood, Frindsbury and Frindsbury in the 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881 censuses respectively. She died in 1885 and was buried in Frindsbury, from the Union Work-house.
The sixth, Harriet (ch1819), my great great grandmother, married Henry William Beaney in Hunton, Kent in 1844, had 8 children with him between 1845 and 1859, and, as noted above, died in 1863. Her eldest son's - Henry William's - eldest child, Ann Louise (Annie), was my grandmother.
The seventh and last, Stephen (ch1821), married a Sarah Newnham in Chatham, Kent in 1844. He is with her, in Frindsbury, in the 1851 census, but by the 1861 census he has left her (she is recorded therein as a ‘deserted wife’). In 1871, 1881 and 1891 he is in Gillingham, Rochester and Strood respectively, latterly in the Union Work-house also, and in each case recorded as a ‘widower’. He died in 1893.
As regards Morgan’s antecedents, I really know nothing more than can be gained by looking at the IGI: that is, that a son, Morgan David, of Elias David and his wife Alice was christened in Egerton, near Ashford in Kent on 27.11.1726, and that a Morgan David (perhaps this Morgan David) married an Ann in Egerton about 1750. Whether these events are related to the Morgan David who turns up successively in Dartford in 1797-1798, Chalk in 1804, Bexley in 1805 and Frindsbury from 1812 onwards is not clear to me. A Morgan David marries a Mary Wallis (according to IGI) on 26.01.1789, but whether this is ‘our’ Morgan’s first marriage is also unclear. Both of you say that he was born in 1756: I’d really like to know where that comes from.
As I say, you probably know all/most of the above already, but if either of you want back-up detail of any aspect, let me know. You will gather that I also know a little about the elusive Beaneys - but then, so, probably, do you!
I’d be delighted if you can add to, comment on or correct anything here, to receive any thoughts or information about the Davids or Beaneys generally, or just to hear from you!
Very best wishes to you both from Scotland,
Bill
I’m truly delighted to read your messages!
It sounds as though you have done a lot of work on Morgan, and that you at least, Penny (from your list of surname interests) are related to him through the same Beaney route as myself.
You will probably already know all or most of what’s below, but I set it out nevertheless in case it’s of any interest.
Morgan David is one of my great great great grandfathers. I’m descended from Harriet, the fifth (so far as I can tell) child of his second wife. Harriet was christened in Frindsbury in 1819 and died (rather spectacularly) at Leeds, near Maidstone in Kent on 24.09.1863.
I know (I think) that Morgan’s first wife was a Mary, and that they had a child, presumably their first son, in December 1797, and baptised Morgan David at Dartford in Kent in January 1798. Thereafter Mary died at a time and place unknown to me.
Morgan then married an Elizabeth Kinkell in Chalk near Gravesend in Kent on 07.06.1804. I know (I think) that Morgan and Elizabeth had one child - Richard - christened in 1805 in Bexley, Kent, and then five more, including Harriet, baptised in Frindsbury between 1812 and 1821. Morgan died and was buried at Frindsbury in 1821. I haven’t managed to find out whether Elizabeth moved and/or remarried and/or died soon thereafter.
Where it is mentioned (in one of his children’s marriage record), Morgan’s occupation is given as ‘basket-maker’, and that’s a calling typical of the travelling folk in the south-east. This is reinforced by the nature of the family that Harriet married into - the Beaneys - who were likewise semi-itinerant, moving around Kent from farm to farm during the late summer harvests. At least one other David family lived in Frindsbury at the same time as Morgan and Elizabeth’s. They were also basket-makers and it seems likely that they were related to Morgan.
As regards Morgan’s children, I have no information about the first four: Morgan (ch1797), Richard (ch1805), Mary Ann (ch1812), or Matilda (ch1814).
The fifth, Hannah (ch1816), married a James Richardson in Cuxton in Kent in 1841, is with him there in the 1841 census, and is also with him in Strood, Strood, Frindsbury and Frindsbury in the 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881 censuses respectively. She died in 1885 and was buried in Frindsbury, from the Union Work-house.
The sixth, Harriet (ch1819), my great great grandmother, married Henry William Beaney in Hunton, Kent in 1844, had 8 children with him between 1845 and 1859, and, as noted above, died in 1863. Her eldest son's - Henry William's - eldest child, Ann Louise (Annie), was my grandmother.
The seventh and last, Stephen (ch1821), married a Sarah Newnham in Chatham, Kent in 1844. He is with her, in Frindsbury, in the 1851 census, but by the 1861 census he has left her (she is recorded therein as a ‘deserted wife’). In 1871, 1881 and 1891 he is in Gillingham, Rochester and Strood respectively, latterly in the Union Work-house also, and in each case recorded as a ‘widower’. He died in 1893.
As regards Morgan’s antecedents, I really know nothing more than can be gained by looking at the IGI: that is, that a son, Morgan David, of Elias David and his wife Alice was christened in Egerton, near Ashford in Kent on 27.11.1726, and that a Morgan David (perhaps this Morgan David) married an Ann in Egerton about 1750. Whether these events are related to the Morgan David who turns up successively in Dartford in 1797-1798, Chalk in 1804, Bexley in 1805 and Frindsbury from 1812 onwards is not clear to me. A Morgan David marries a Mary Wallis (according to IGI) on 26.01.1789, but whether this is ‘our’ Morgan’s first marriage is also unclear. Both of you say that he was born in 1756: I’d really like to know where that comes from.
As I say, you probably know all/most of the above already, but if either of you want back-up detail of any aspect, let me know. You will gather that I also know a little about the elusive Beaneys - but then, so, probably, do you!
I’d be delighted if you can add to, comment on or correct anything here, to receive any thoughts or information about the Davids or Beaneys generally, or just to hear from you!
Very best wishes to you both from Scotland,
Bill
Hi Bill!
As you say, we are from the same family line - the Beaneys! My gt gt grandfather was John David Beaney 1859, the brother of Henry William Beaney, your ancestor! When I started researching my family tree ten years ago I only had one cousin that I knew of, now I have many - and have now gained a Scottish one!! WOW!
I have one additional child of Morgan and Elizabeth, Henry David ch 10 Sept 1809 at Dartford. It was he who was living in Cage Lane and described as 'chair maker' in 1841, 1851 and 1861. He died in 1869 in Strood. He was married to Sarah Pain and had 8 children. I have furter details about these children if you would like them. :2fun:
Penny
As you say, we are from the same family line - the Beaneys! My gt gt grandfather was John David Beaney 1859, the brother of Henry William Beaney, your ancestor! When I started researching my family tree ten years ago I only had one cousin that I knew of, now I have many - and have now gained a Scottish one!! WOW!
I have one additional child of Morgan and Elizabeth, Henry David ch 10 Sept 1809 at Dartford. It was he who was living in Cage Lane and described as 'chair maker' in 1841, 1851 and 1861. He died in 1869 in Strood. He was married to Sarah Pain and had 8 children. I have furter details about these children if you would like them. :2fun:
Penny
Hi Penny and Kim
Thanks so much, Penny, for directing me to Morgan and Elizabeth’s son Henry: I’d missed his christening in Frindsbury, and I really appreciate your pointing it out. I’m a bit doubtful about whether he definitely IS the Henry who marries Sarah Pain and has all those children. It seems to me at least possible that THAT Henry may be the son of William and Hannah David who was christened in Strood in 1812. And the christian names of the Henry/Sarah children are rather closer to those of the William/Hannah Henry’s parents and siblings than they are to the Morgan/Elizabeth’s Henry’s family.
Penny, for some time I‘ve been fascinated by your ancestor John David Beaney, and what happened when his family split up following their mother’s sudden death in 1863. I guess you know of the fire? If not, let me know. John David seems to have stayed with his father and stepmother for a while, but, having been christened from the Chatham Workhouse in 1870, he is a pedlar on Barming Heath by 1871! I know he settled down thereafter, but what a start in life! Do you have the dates of his birth and death, Penny? I just know they were in 1859 and 1944 respectively (I think). And has anyone any ideas what happened to his stepmother Elizabeth Amelia Beaney (nee Farrant)?
Finally, why does everyone (except me!) know that our Morgan David was born (in Egerton) in 1756??? What am I missing!!!?
All good wishes to everyone from a rather chilly north-east of Scotland,
Bill
Thanks so much, Penny, for directing me to Morgan and Elizabeth’s son Henry: I’d missed his christening in Frindsbury, and I really appreciate your pointing it out. I’m a bit doubtful about whether he definitely IS the Henry who marries Sarah Pain and has all those children. It seems to me at least possible that THAT Henry may be the son of William and Hannah David who was christened in Strood in 1812. And the christian names of the Henry/Sarah children are rather closer to those of the William/Hannah Henry’s parents and siblings than they are to the Morgan/Elizabeth’s Henry’s family.
Penny, for some time I‘ve been fascinated by your ancestor John David Beaney, and what happened when his family split up following their mother’s sudden death in 1863. I guess you know of the fire? If not, let me know. John David seems to have stayed with his father and stepmother for a while, but, having been christened from the Chatham Workhouse in 1870, he is a pedlar on Barming Heath by 1871! I know he settled down thereafter, but what a start in life! Do you have the dates of his birth and death, Penny? I just know they were in 1859 and 1944 respectively (I think). And has anyone any ideas what happened to his stepmother Elizabeth Amelia Beaney (nee Farrant)?
Finally, why does everyone (except me!) know that our Morgan David was born (in Egerton) in 1756??? What am I missing!!!?
All good wishes to everyone from a rather chilly north-east of Scotland,
Bill
Hi Bill,
Did you know that Morgan and Elizabeth also had a daughter Elizabeth born 1807 in Wrotham Kent. My email is mercedeskim1957@aol.com. If you let me have your email address I will send you my full David file.
Kim
Did you know that Morgan and Elizabeth also had a daughter Elizabeth born 1807 in Wrotham Kent. My email is mercedeskim1957@aol.com. If you let me have your email address I will send you my full David file.
Kim
Hi Bill
Well, when Kim recommended this site to me I never realised what I'd find out - and how soon! I'll be blowed as the saying is. I know John David Beaney was born on 1st Nov 1859 and married Harriet Austin on 2 Dec 1881. I didn't know his death date - the year I was born too. My grandmother Florence Harriet Beaney was one of eight children. The Beaney history was never mentioned to us children (my mother was a terrible snob) and I now know why! I am descended from gypsies and pedlars on both sides of my father's family, how exciting! It makes my mother's Welsh family seem quite normal!! I also have a hairdresser somewhere in my tree, what mixture. I'll send you all details if you let meknow where to send them. I'd love to know about the fire - and how your family ended up in Scotland!
Penny
Well, when Kim recommended this site to me I never realised what I'd find out - and how soon! I'll be blowed as the saying is. I know John David Beaney was born on 1st Nov 1859 and married Harriet Austin on 2 Dec 1881. I didn't know his death date - the year I was born too. My grandmother Florence Harriet Beaney was one of eight children. The Beaney history was never mentioned to us children (my mother was a terrible snob) and I now know why! I am descended from gypsies and pedlars on both sides of my father's family, how exciting! It makes my mother's Welsh family seem quite normal!! I also have a hairdresser somewhere in my tree, what mixture. I'll send you all details if you let meknow where to send them. I'd love to know about the fire - and how your family ended up in Scotland!
Penny
Well, I've searched the censuses and couldn't find evidence of John David Beane living with his father and step-mother 1871 he was lodging with the Eastwood family and in 1881 was lodging with his future in-laws. He married later that year aged just 19 years to Harriet Austin aged 16yrs! From then on it was all up-hill for him!
Hi Kim and Penny
It’s really good to hear from you both, and I’d be delighted if you’d be kind enough to let me see me your work on the Davids. My e-mail address is w.f.long@abdn.ac.uk. What I can do is send you both my ‘Beaney file’: this includes all I know of the Davids. I’m sure that you will know a lot (or all) of it already, but there may be just a little that’s of interest. At the start is a (reasonably) organised summary table, and, after that, notes in the order that I obtained the information, so that is rather jumbled. If anything is not clear, and you want to pursue something, let me know.
Penny: you may find some things of use – more on the Beaneys than the Davids, I think. You may want to sift through the notes, and, if you want more information, background or back-up to what is there, please let me know.
Kim: it sounds as though you will certainly know all I know of the Davids (and more!), so I’m not sure that my file with be of much interest, but please let me know if you want anything (or if and where you think I’ve gone wrong David-wise!) I’m intrigued to know how you are connected to the Davids, if, as it seems, it is not through the Beaneys – but that will appear in your David file, I guess.
Now, responses to specifics:
1 No, Kim, I did not know of the Wrotham David: thanks for the information: I guess Elizabeth will appear in your David file.
2 Penny: The incident that broke up Henry William Beaney and Harriet (nee David)’s family is referred to in Harriet’s death certificate on p.25 of the Notes that I am sending. I recently came up with the dc, and my cousin Maureen unearthed back-up reports in the local papers. I can check with her about sending them to you if you wish. (I hope that you both would not mind my sharing your David material with her?) Basically, the family (without the father, HW, who was in Maidstone gaol at the time(!)) was working at a hoppery at Leeds, near Maidstone. Harriet and her daughter Elizabeth were killed in a fire at their temporary lodging. Harriet was drunk, Elizabeth tried to rescue her, and there are hints of foul play of some sort. All good colourful background, Penny!!!
3 Penny: I absolutely agree with your John David census details (although he was married on 26 (not 02).12.1881). My reference to his living with his father and step-mother comes from his late christening in 1870, which is referred to on p.27 of my Notes.
4 Penny again: Sorry if you were expecting a Scottish connection involving Rob Roy or William Wallace, but it’s simply that I moved here some time ago and stayed. I was actually born in Strood – the heartland of the notorious Beaneys!
All best wishes to you both. I’ll send my Beaney file off to you now!
Bill
It’s really good to hear from you both, and I’d be delighted if you’d be kind enough to let me see me your work on the Davids. My e-mail address is w.f.long@abdn.ac.uk. What I can do is send you both my ‘Beaney file’: this includes all I know of the Davids. I’m sure that you will know a lot (or all) of it already, but there may be just a little that’s of interest. At the start is a (reasonably) organised summary table, and, after that, notes in the order that I obtained the information, so that is rather jumbled. If anything is not clear, and you want to pursue something, let me know.
Penny: you may find some things of use – more on the Beaneys than the Davids, I think. You may want to sift through the notes, and, if you want more information, background or back-up to what is there, please let me know.
Kim: it sounds as though you will certainly know all I know of the Davids (and more!), so I’m not sure that my file with be of much interest, but please let me know if you want anything (or if and where you think I’ve gone wrong David-wise!) I’m intrigued to know how you are connected to the Davids, if, as it seems, it is not through the Beaneys – but that will appear in your David file, I guess.
Now, responses to specifics:
1 No, Kim, I did not know of the Wrotham David: thanks for the information: I guess Elizabeth will appear in your David file.
2 Penny: The incident that broke up Henry William Beaney and Harriet (nee David)’s family is referred to in Harriet’s death certificate on p.25 of the Notes that I am sending. I recently came up with the dc, and my cousin Maureen unearthed back-up reports in the local papers. I can check with her about sending them to you if you wish. (I hope that you both would not mind my sharing your David material with her?) Basically, the family (without the father, HW, who was in Maidstone gaol at the time(!)) was working at a hoppery at Leeds, near Maidstone. Harriet and her daughter Elizabeth were killed in a fire at their temporary lodging. Harriet was drunk, Elizabeth tried to rescue her, and there are hints of foul play of some sort. All good colourful background, Penny!!!
3 Penny: I absolutely agree with your John David census details (although he was married on 26 (not 02).12.1881). My reference to his living with his father and step-mother comes from his late christening in 1870, which is referred to on p.27 of my Notes.
4 Penny again: Sorry if you were expecting a Scottish connection involving Rob Roy or William Wallace, but it’s simply that I moved here some time ago and stayed. I was actually born in Strood – the heartland of the notorious Beaneys!
All best wishes to you both. I’ll send my Beaney file off to you now!
Bill
Hi Penny and Kim
Thank you both for sending me your Beaney and David files respectively. I've spent a very enjoyable time looking at the results of all your hard work. And I hope that you found the material I sent out helpful to yourselves.
Here are a few questions and comments for you, Kim. (Of course ignore any or all as you wish!)
How do we know that:
1 Elizabeth Kinkell was born in Germany? (p.4)
2 Elizabeth or Eliza (Jane) DAVID is Morgan and Elizabeth’s daughter? I can’t find her marriage in 1833 (apart from a mention in IGI) or her death/burial (in, presumably, Milton-by-Gravesend). (p.4)
3 Stephen DAVID’s death (or burial?) date was 29.11.1893? (p.5)
4 Morgan DAVID was born in 1756? (pp.4,5)
5 Mary and Ann DAVID were daughters of Elias and Alice? (p.6)
6 Epiphany DAVID married in 1770? (p.6)
7 Jane DAVID was born 31.05.1706? (p.6)
Other notes:
1 In 1881, Hannah DAVID is in Bacons (not Bartons) Alley (p.3).
2 Mary Ann DAVID may be born in Dartford (I’ve no evidence) but she was christened in Frindsbury on 14.06.1812. (p.4)
3 Harriet DAVID dies in 1863 (not 1865). (p.5)
4 Morgan DAVID is christened (not born) on 27.11.1726 (according in 1GI). (p.5)
5 Morgan DAVID’s marriage to Mary Wallis: IGI says (oddly) that it was at ‘St Sepulchre Northampton or London’. St Sepulchre is the big Northampton parish church. Today (08.12.2007) I e-mailed someone at the Northamptonshire Family History Society, who confirmed that they were NOT married at St Sepulchre Northampton (as always seemed a bit likely). (p.5)
Now for you, Penny:
Sorry to disappoint you about Elizabeth Kinkell DAVID, but my chart (the first two pages of the document sent) shows a person's age and location when that person has been recorded as present in the return. A chart entry that shows age means that the person has not been detected, and the 'age' is their projected age (so that I know what to look for in any future search). I don't have further details of Harriet's fire other than what appears in my notes: it sounds as though Kim may be able to look for reports in the New Year.
Best wishes to you both, and let me know if you want to me to try to explain anything else about the document I sent.
Bill
Thank you both for sending me your Beaney and David files respectively. I've spent a very enjoyable time looking at the results of all your hard work. And I hope that you found the material I sent out helpful to yourselves.
Here are a few questions and comments for you, Kim. (Of course ignore any or all as you wish!)
How do we know that:
1 Elizabeth Kinkell was born in Germany? (p.4)
2 Elizabeth or Eliza (Jane) DAVID is Morgan and Elizabeth’s daughter? I can’t find her marriage in 1833 (apart from a mention in IGI) or her death/burial (in, presumably, Milton-by-Gravesend). (p.4)
3 Stephen DAVID’s death (or burial?) date was 29.11.1893? (p.5)
4 Morgan DAVID was born in 1756? (pp.4,5)
5 Mary and Ann DAVID were daughters of Elias and Alice? (p.6)
6 Epiphany DAVID married in 1770? (p.6)
7 Jane DAVID was born 31.05.1706? (p.6)
Other notes:
1 In 1881, Hannah DAVID is in Bacons (not Bartons) Alley (p.3).
2 Mary Ann DAVID may be born in Dartford (I’ve no evidence) but she was christened in Frindsbury on 14.06.1812. (p.4)
3 Harriet DAVID dies in 1863 (not 1865). (p.5)
4 Morgan DAVID is christened (not born) on 27.11.1726 (according in 1GI). (p.5)
5 Morgan DAVID’s marriage to Mary Wallis: IGI says (oddly) that it was at ‘St Sepulchre Northampton or London’. St Sepulchre is the big Northampton parish church. Today (08.12.2007) I e-mailed someone at the Northamptonshire Family History Society, who confirmed that they were NOT married at St Sepulchre Northampton (as always seemed a bit likely). (p.5)
Now for you, Penny:
Sorry to disappoint you about Elizabeth Kinkell DAVID, but my chart (the first two pages of the document sent) shows a person's age and location when that person has been recorded as present in the return. A chart entry that shows age means that the person has not been detected, and the 'age' is their projected age (so that I know what to look for in any future search). I don't have further details of Harriet's fire other than what appears in my notes: it sounds as though Kim may be able to look for reports in the New Year.
Best wishes to you both, and let me know if you want to me to try to explain anything else about the document I sent.
Bill
Hi Bill
Many thanks for explaining some of our queries. I got most of my David information from Kim, so I'll leave it to her to explain the oddities! I did thik, for moment, that you had found the elusive Elizabeth Kinkell on censuses - perhaps she did come from Germany and went back there after Morgan died?? The Germany bit was a suggestion from a Genes contact - also that her name was 'possibly' Kinnell. I didn't find anything under that name either. We delve ever deeper and perhaps one day we will find the truth! I sound like a film dialogue....ever onward!!
Penny
Many thanks for explaining some of our queries. I got most of my David information from Kim, so I'll leave it to her to explain the oddities! I did thik, for moment, that you had found the elusive Elizabeth Kinkell on censuses - perhaps she did come from Germany and went back there after Morgan died?? The Germany bit was a suggestion from a Genes contact - also that her name was 'possibly' Kinnell. I didn't find anything under that name either.
We delve ever deeper and perhaps one day we will find the truth! I sound like a film dialogue....ever onward!!Penny
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