Death cert info

[Karen Strother]

Hi
Can anyone tell me if it's possible (and how to ) to look up anything to do with someones death? I just received death cert of my GG grandad who died at age 35. On the certificate it says he died of "Pneumonia cerebral haemorrage". Family stories say he was a drunkard and "drank himself to death" but can that cause a brain haemorrage? Can pneumonia cause it? He died in August - is it cold enough then for this?
The doctor who certified death has the letters L.A.G.P after his name. Death occured in 1890 and I haven't seen these letters after a doctor's name - at least not here in Australia. Can I find anything more? I cannot even find his birth as there were so many James Ashton's born in Manchester in 1855! I have a marriage and death certificate but cannot find enough info to climb this tree any further.
Thanks
Karen

 

[p.risboy]

Hi karen
I think pneumonia can occur any time of year, it was more than likely the conditions that he lived in.
If the building was damp and poorly ventilated, if he slept outside in damp conditions. If he was caught in a rain shower, and slept in his wet clothes.
Alchohol in itself does not cause brain haemorrage, but it would be a contributing factor.
There are loads of variables. Don't get hung up on the circumstance of his death.
Who was the informant of his death. Was it a relative.
Have you researched his wifes family.
Who were the witnesses at the marriage. Could be a relative.
Where did the marriage take place. Location could provide an answer.
What are the parents names on the marriage cert.

Stick with it, and he will slowly reveal himself.

Steve.

 

[crankypants]

Hi Karen

Australian Medical Pioneers Index

http://www.medicalpioneers.com/search.htm

Enter the Doctor's name, it may show his qualifications.

I couldn't find any terms for L.A.G.P.

Cause of death, Steve's comments are good advise.

I'm sure if you post some information on your James ASHTON there are lots of us here happy to help if we can.

** sorry scratch that link. Just realised he died in Salford, Lancashire. Is your James the Barman in 1881 census.

Is it possible for you to post the image of doctors credentials only.

cheers
crankypants

 

[Karen Strother]

Hi Crankypants
I don't know how to attach the certificate? Do I scan and then attach? How to do this please?
Yes he is the barman on the 1881 Census
Cheers

Hi Karen

Australian Medical Pioneers Index

http://www.medicalpioneers.com/search.htm

Enter the Doctor's name, it may show his qualifications.

I couldn't find any terms for L.A.G.P.

Cause of death, Steve's comments are good advise.

I'm sure if you post some information on your James ASHTON there are lots of us here happy to help if we can.

** sorry scratch that link. Just realised he died in Salford, Lancashire. Is your James the Barman in 1881 census.

Is it possible for you to post the image of doctors credentials only.

cheers
crankypants

 

[Karen Strother]

Hi Steve
I have started to research Elizabeths family:
James ASHTON was born 1855 in Salford and died on 8th August 1890 (death folio 8D103). I cannot find any parent’s for him at this stage.
He married Elizabeth ANN LEVER at All Saints, Newton Heath Manchester in September 1876 (folio 8C400)
Elizabeth Ann LEVER was born in 1853 in Colne Manchester (folio 8D117) and died 1918 at Barton Upon Irwell (folio 8C878).

Elizabeth Ann Lever parentage and siblings:
Parents – (John b1832 in Manchester) married Alice BIRTWISTLE (b1835 in Trowden Yorkshire and died 1909 in Oldham Manchester folio 8D509) and had the following children:

Elizabeth Ann b 1853
William b 1855
Sarah E b 1858
Amelia b 1862
George b 1864
John b 1866
Arthur b 1870
Edwin b 1874
All the family were born in Manchester around Salford and Colne areas.
I hav ordered John and Alice's marriage cert because 2 x John Lever's born 1832 Manchester! Same problem with Alice! I am having such fun !! (not)

Generation2
Children of James and Elizabeth
(2)Edwin ASHTON born 14 October 1879

On the 1881 census James and Elizabeth are living at 132 Oldfield Road in Salford with little Edwin aged 2 and James’ occupation is listed as a barman/head servant.
Also living with them is William Lever, Elizabeth’s brother.
James died of a cerebral hemorrhage at home, 58 Phoebe Street Salford on 8 August 1890. The doctor certifying death was William Bell. Elizabeth signed as informant on his death certificate and signed her name with an “X” meaning she was illiterate. His occupation is listed as ”maker up of calico”.
On the 1891 census Elizabeth and son Edwin are living with her mother Alice Lever at 58 Phoebe Street Ordsall Salford. Alice is listed as being a wife but her husband John Lever senior is not present.
He is at daughter Sarah’s place in Beswick. (Aged 59 so probably visiting)
Also living there are John and Edwin Lever- Elizabeth’s brothers and Alice F Willings (aged 8) - Elizabeth’s neice.
There is also a servant named Elizabeth Pike aged 15 present.
On 1901 census Edwin is still living with grandmother at 58 Phoebe Street. (where James Ashton died) His occupation is a provisions clerk.

Alice now listed as the head. Her occupation is a shop keeper. Also living there is Edwin Lever (uncle), provisions clerk and a servant named Jessica Croft aged 14.

Elizabeth is not present as by this time had remarried to John (Jack) Frier in June 1896 (folio 8D630). They then went to live in Caddishead on Moss farm
John is listed on this census as visitor at Elizabeth and John Frier’s house in Cadishead, Irwell.

Cheers
Karen

Hi karen
I think pneumonia can occur any time of year, it was more than likely the conditions that he lived in.
If the building was damp and poorly ventilated, if he slept outside in damp conditions. If he was caught in a rain shower, and slept in his wet clothes.
Alchohol in itself does not cause brain haemorrage, but it would be a contributing factor.
There are loads of variables. Don't get hung up on the circumstance of his death.
Who was the informant of his death. Was it a relative.
Have you researched his wifes family.
Who were the witnesses at the marriage. Could be a relative.
Where did the marriage take place. Location could provide an answer.
What are the parents names on the marriage cert.

Stick with it, and he will slowly reveal himself.

Steve.

 

[crankypants]

Hi Karen

Can I ask who the witnesses on the ASHTON/LEVER marriage certificate are.

cheers
crankypants

 

[Karen Strother]

Hi crankypants
I have ordered this and hopefully will get it this coming week - despatch date was 24/4/09. as there are a few James Ashtons in Manchester, I could only be definate about the 1881 census wihich showed my great Grandad Edwin with James and Elizabeth. When I received Edwin's marriage certificate it confirmed his father as James Ashton deceased. Edwin married Beatrice Lucy Harding on 22 July 1903. I will let you know the witnesses and father of James as soon as I receive it. Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate all the advice and the "steering in the right direction" form you, Steve and Ben
Cheers
Karen :biggrin:

Hi Karen

Can I ask who the witnesses on the ASHTON/LEVER marriage certificate are.

cheers
crankypants

 

[crankypants]

Hi Karen

Cross your fingers his marriage certificate lists his father's name and occupation.

I have been following a James ASHTON born in Manchester in 1861/1871 so will soon see if this is your James, wishful thinking on my part.>

cheers
crankypants

 

[Karen Strother]

Hi crankypants
I have received marriage cert today of James and Elizabeth:
James father is Joseph Ashton listed as "overlooker"
Elizabeth father is John Lever - Mechanic (which I knew already)
Date of marriage is July 15th 1876. James is aged 22 and Elizabeth aged 25
Residence is Newton
Witnesses are William Lever and mark of Sophia Brown
dare I hope it's "your" James??
cheers
Karen

Hi Karen

Cross your fingers his marriage certificate lists his father's name and occupation.

I have been following a James ASHTON born in Manchester in 1861/1871 so will soon see if this is your James, wishful thinking on my part.>

cheers
crankypants

 

[crankypants]

Hi crankypants
I have received marriage cert today of James and Elizabeth:
James father is Joseph Ashton listed as "overlooker"
Elizabeth father is John Lever - Mechanic (which I knew already)
Date of marriage is July 15th 1876. James is aged 22 and Elizabeth aged 25
Residence is Newton
Witnesses are William Lever and mark of Sophia Brown
dare I hope it's "your" James??
cheers
Karen

Hi Karen

dare I hope it's "your" James??

However the residence Newtown, Occupation Overlooker = cotton work and Sophia BROWN may be the key to this family.

1861 England census
Civil Parish: St John
County: Lancashire
Address: 18 Berkshire Pl

ASHTON Joseph head 1824 age 37 Labourer Manchester
ASHTON Eliza wife 1824 age 37 Cotton Weaver Manchester
ASHTON Sophia 1851 age 10 Scholar Manchester
ASHTON James 1856 age 5 Scholar Manchester
ASHTON Wm Henry 1860 age 1 Manchester

1871 England census
Civil Parish: Newton
County: Lancashire
Address: 2 Bershire St

ASHTON Joseph head 1824 age 47 Labourer Cadishead, Lancashire
AHSTON Eliza wife 1824 age 47 Maker Up Cadishead, Lancashire
ASHTON James son 1855 age 16 Cotton Winder Newton, Lancashire
ASHTON Sophia daur 1850 age 21 Leavenshulme, Lancashire

1881 England census
Civil Parish: Manchester
County: Lancashire
Address: 2 Berkshire St

ASHTON Joseph head 1823 age 58 Cotton Mill Cadishead, Lancashire
ASHTON Eliza wife 1824 age 57 Cadishead, Lancashire
THROWN Joseph Son in Law 1849 age 32 Overlooker Manchester, Lancashire
THROWN Sophia Daughter 1849 age 32 Winder Levenshulme, Lancashire (Alt name Sophia Ashby)
THROWN Eliza A. Granddaughter 1878 age 3 Newton Heath, Lancashire

(Transcribed as THROWN, image is BROWN)

MARRIAGE Sept Qtr 1874
ASHTON Sophia Manchester 8d 673
BROWN Joseph Manchester 8d 673

1891 England census
Civil Parish: Newton
County: Lancashire
Address: 2 Berkshire St

BROWN Joseph head 1850 age 41 Overlooker, Cotton Winder Manchester, Lancashire
BROWN Sophia wife 1851 age 40 Winder Levenshulme; Manchester, Lancashire (Alt name Sophia Ashby)
BROWN Eliza Ann daur 1877 age 14 Newton; Manchester, Lancashire
BROWN Lily daur 1883 age 8 Newton; Manchester, Lancashire
ASHTON Joseph Father-in-law 1823 age 68 Cadishead, Lancashire

What do you think, I will be back.

cheers
crankypants

 

[Karen Strother]

Hi crankypants
Well, you certainly were busy - or did you already have this info? I worked on this from when I got home from work today and found all the info you listed!
I added them into my tree and Ancestry.com helped too!
Do we have a link or are you just being your usual very helpful self?
Thanks once again
cheers
Karen

 

[crankypants]

Hi crankypants
Well, you certainly were busy - or did you already have this info? I worked on this from when I got home from work today and found all the info you listed!
I added them into my tree and Ancestry.com helped too!
Do we have a link or are you just being your usual very helpful self?
Thanks once again
cheers
Karen

Hi Karen

Yes I narrowed him down mainly going by the I.G.I where a James ASHTON christened 11th November 1855 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England, son of Joseph & Eliza.
Joseph ASHTON & Eliza BUCKLEY marriage 19th August 1849 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England.
You'll find christenings of the other two children at this link.

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/search_IGI.asp

"Just happy to help"

cheers
crankypants

 

[Karen Strother]

Hi crankypants
Thanks so much for this once again. You are so good to help me like this and I appreciate it so much. As I am new to this it really does help when someone more experienced confirms my findings and reassures me I am on the right track.
I am now trying for info on William the baby. Seems to disappear after the 1861 census but I haven't been able to find a death for him as yet. Then I have to try and find parents for Eliza Buckley and Joseph.

So I can assume that we don't have a link then?
cheers
Karen

Hi Karen

Yes I narrowed him down mainly going by the I.G.I where a James ASHTON christened 11th November 1855 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England, son of Joseph & Eliza.
Joseph ASHTON & Eliza BUCKLEY marriage 19th August 1849 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England.
You'll find christenings of the other two children at this link.

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/search_IGI.asp

"Just happy to help"

cheers
crankypants