Dobbins information

[Suthseaxe]

I've hit a bit of a wall with my 2nd great grandmother (Eva Dobbins) and her father (Joseph Dobbins). Eva seems to be an interesting person, so I am keen to find out what I can about her.

I have her marriage certificate from the Irish Áis Taighde where she married my 2nd great grandfather (Sep 1905), Thomas Carroll. Her father is listed there as Joseph Dobbins (deceased, I think). His occupation is given as "colour sergeant."

Now, if you look up Eva Dobbins in the 1901 census, she is listed as a visitor at the same address on her marriage certificate. She is a 20 year-old accountant and her birthplace is given as Allahabad!

Here is where things get interesting - if you search for records on Sergeant Joseph Dobbins, I can find little but a medal card, showing he served in the Second Afghan War, 1878-1880. Could this be how Eva was born in Allahabad?

So the main crux of my question is: how would I go about tracing potential births in colonial India? Is that possible?

 

[p.risboy]

Hmmmmm.......!! From Family Search(IGI).

Name:
Margaret Eva Dobbins
Gender:
Female
Christening Date:
10 Oct 1880
Christening Place:
Fuzepore, Bengal, India
Birth Date:
02 Oct 1880
Father's Name:
Joseph Dobbins
Mother's Name:
Hannah

Name:
Josephine Mary Dobbins
Gender:
Female
Christening Date:
27 Dec 1877
Christening Place:
Peshawar, Bengal, India
Birth Date:
14 Dec 1877
Father's Name:
Joseph Dobbins
Mother's Name:
Hannah

Name:
Catherine Elizabeth Dobbins
Gender:
Female
Christening Date:
28 Nov 1875
Christening Place:
Jullendur, Bengal, India
Birth Date:
18 Nov 1875
Birthplace:
Jullendur, Bengal, India
Father's Name:
Joseph Dobbins
Mother's Name:
Hanna

Name:
Patricia Mary Dobbins
Gender:
Female
Christening Date:
25 Mar 1883
Christening Place:
Allahabad, Bengal, India
Father's Name:
Joseph Dobbins
Mother's Name:
Hannah

Steve.

//

 

[Suthseaxe]

Firstly, how on Earth did you find that?! Also...middle names! That could explain it. Would it be common to have a middle name as a first name on a marriage certificate? It definitely says Eva on there, but everything else is spot on. Even birth date. Thanks so much

 

[DaveHam9]

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list/?page=1&region=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND

Need to register but free to search within that site.

Also

http://isp.ans.com.au/~rampais/genelogy/india/indexes/index.htm

https://www.fibis.org

Dave

 

[Suthseaxe]

(Can't seem to edit that post above, so I'll have to add another!)

I just put Hannah in as Joseph's wife on ancestry and a record flagged up from "India: Select Births, Deaths and Baptisms 1786-1947" for a Hannah and Joseph Dobbins with a "match" child name. Unfortunately, I don't have worldwide membership, so I cannot search further, but I think it suggests that you have put me on the right track. Thanks so much

 

[DaveHam9]

From fibis

But does not name the child

Ref No. ASJB0945
Photo no P1100888
Location St. Joseph's Cathedral, Allahabad
Type of record Baptism (parents)
Year 1883
Man's First Name Joseph
Woman's First Name Hannah
Surname Dobbins
Occupation L.N.L. Regt.
City Allahabad


Christian name Patricia Mary
Surname Dobbins
City Allahabad
Location St. Joseph's Cathedral
Type of record Burial
Year 1883
Ref No ASJD0883
Photo No. P1110219

 

[DaveHam9]

CMB & Other Data from Original Indian Sources

Christenings/Marriages/Burials

The site timed out on me.
Error 524
A timeout occurred

Dave

 

[Suthseaxe]

Dave, that's fantastic, because that corroborates with the medal card I found listing a Sergeant Joseph Dobbins as serving with the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment (Loyal Lincoln Volunteers back in the Second Afghan War, but amalgamated into the L.N.L in 1881). I'm trying to find Hannah's maiden name so I may be able to track where she and Joseph were married. No luck thus far, but the information in this thread could help massively.

Loyal Lincoln Volunteers were based in Gibraltar at one point and a Joseph Dobbins is listed there in army records, so I cannot rule out possible Gibraltar, India or England connections! This is fascinating

 

[Haylsea]

Hi there,

It looks like Hannah Dobbins/Dobbin nee ? Was born in cork around 1860.

In the 1901 and 1911 census she is a matron/nurse in Bedford Row, Limerick. She states she is from cork in both and a widow.

In 1917 her son Henry Joseph Dobbins died aged 30 and his death notice, attached, states son of Hannah A and the late Joseph Dobbins of Bedford Row, Limerick.

His army records show next of kin as Mother Hannah, same address as above and brother Frederick Young??

Hayley

 

[DaveHam9]

Commonwealth War Graves Commission
DOBBINS, HENRY JOSEPH
Private Henry Joseph Dobbins
Army Service Corps
Died: Tuesday 6 February 1917 (aged 30)
Son of Hannah A. and the late Joseph Dobbins, of Bedford Row, Limerick.
BOIS-GUILLAUME COMMUNAL CEMETERY
Cemetery/memorial reference:
II. C. 14.
Country:
France


https://www.cwgc.org

 

[Haylsea]

It looks like Hannah’s name was MAHONEY

Henry Joseph Dobbins b. 1884 Preston

William Cornelius b. 1886 Preston

Frederick George b. 1888 Preston

Realised on Henry’s Army records it states Brother Frederick youngest and not Young as originally thought

 

[Suthseaxe]

So many leads here. These are excellent. I shall have fun digging into these this evening and seeing what I can reconstruct. Bedford Row was indeed where my 2x great grandfather, Thomas Carroll, was living when he married Eva in 1905.

That could explain, regardless of where Joseph was from, how they ended up in Ireland.

It's difficult to find birth records of those brothers born in Preston. And the date for Henry seems off. Aged 30 in 1917 implies 1887 birth. I need to do some more digging. I'm also trying to gather more evidence to tie together Joseph and Hannah's wedding to really nail down her maiden name. The search continues!

 

[DaveHam9]

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Have to register but free to use.

There is no Henry Joseph Dobbins in the index 1887 +/- 2 years

DOBBINS, HENRY JOSEPH - MAHONEY
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 655

DOBBINS, WILLIAM CORNELIUS - MAHONEY
GRO Reference: 1886 D Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 642

DOBBINS, FREDERICK GEORGE MAHONEY
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 685

 

[Suthseaxe]

This is intriguing because the obituary clearly says that Henry Joseph was 30 years old in 1917, which does not quite add up. Certainly warrants some more investigation.

I have found a Joseph Dobbins death registered in Chortley, Lancashire in 1900. Given the fact he was serving with the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment still in 1883, this seems highly plausible. There is another Joseph Dobbins registered in West Derby in the same year, though he is over 60. Though I suppose it is not implausible to have someone serving as a sergeant at the age of 28 actually (as confirmed by the medal card).

I just wonder if anyone can suggest anything to tie everything up? I don't think I have quite have the strength of evidence to confirm that Hannah Mahoney is indeed the Hannah I'm looking for. The one thing I can currently think of is asking the Lincoln Military museum if they may hold his army record (I know they hold some from the LNL and the 81st Regiment of foot) which may list his next of kin? (I know my 2x great grandfather's record lists his wife and children).

I'm drawing a blank with the J Dobbins H (Mahoney?) marriage record and that's also what I'm looking to pin down.

Thanks, by the way, Dave for the GRO link. That's really rather helpful! I didn't know that was around.

 

[p.risboy]

Find My Past have Military Service records. Not sure if your Joseph Dobbins is there.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/sea...d-conflict/and_regimental-and-service-records

Perhaps some kind soul will look for you.

Steve.

 

[DaveHam9]

Taking some relevant info from service record should confirm things such as younger brother being Frederick.

This one must fit regardless of the age recorded there.
If there is doubt then the answer is to find evidence to prove it's the wrong one. Where is any such evidence?

Died: Tuesday 6 February 1917 (aged 30)
Son of Hannah A. and the late Joseph Dobbins, of Bedford Row, Limerick.

I have ages for convicts that are 5 years out. I have a confirmed death in England that is 10 years out.

Dave

 

[Suthseaxe]

I'm quite new to this, so I'm unsure exactly how far out "out" can be, so I definitely will not write Henry Joseph off just yet

I wonder why it is so difficult to find a marriage record for them, though? I've had no trouble with other ancestors. If they did not marry in England or India, then where? The only other possibility is that the 81st Regiment of Foot were based in Gibraltar at one point!

I don't suppose anyone knows if someone at FIBIS would have Hannah's maiden name on that christening record at all?

 

[DaveHam9]

I've not Joined FIBIS so can only get get what is freely available. I don't know what the record might have.
Many baptisms only have the father's name and occupation.

There are images of the records on FIBIS - eg. from post #6
Ref No. ASJB0945
Photo no P1100888

and a note about getting a copy.

I have a marriage in my tree in Gibraltar, a Sergeant of the 94th Regiment in 1829, and someone found it for me years ago.

There is some site that has the King's Chapel Registers
GRO Chaplains Returns Marriages 1796-1880.

With a birth in 1875 in India it seems the marriage would fall within the above range.
If it was in Gibraltar it might be in that set or not. It may have been in Gibraltar and not in that set.
Not all events from any location in the world have been registered or have survived.

In some situations the only way to confirm something is to rule out all other possibilities.

I have a marriage of a serviceman I can't find in the West Indies and a death I can't find in Malta.

FIBIS is timing out on me now so can't get that note re photos back up.

This is one of many sites with info.

http://www.archhistory.co.uk/taca/history.html

 

[Suthseaxe]

That site led me to Findmypast where I managed to grab this excerpt from the Londonderry Sentinel

" Hamilton, New York, Bov. J. 0, Hsmilloo, formerly minister of Rutland equate Church, Dublin. April 18, suddenly. Sergeant Joseph Dobbins, Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment, aged 38 years. April 20, Thomas Quinn M‘Clo>key. April 20, Lewis-street, Boeemount "

That's him! Everything ties up there. So he was born in 1852. Now I have a lead to go by. Which also means he cannot have married Hannah in Gibraltar if she were born in 1860, because she was only 11 at the time. Even more intriguing is that Hannah, in that case, may have been born in - or travelled to - India? I will definitely be researching this more later. Thank you Dave!

 

[DaveHam9]

Hannah does say she is 41 in 1901 census. That may or may not be accurate as people don't always give their correct age.

Has any birth before 1875 been found? If not then we are probably looking for a marriage in India around 1875 but I didn't see it in FIBIS. ??

I searched FIBIS for Mahoney and in CMB found 4 pages of hits but no Hannah.