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Reg# 1203
DOWNES Ada Elizth
Event: M
Spouse Surname: NORMAN
Spouse Gvn Names: Edwd [b. Dublin]
Birth Place: CARLTON
Year: 1894
Reg Place: Victoria

The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - Saturday 14 April 1894 p.5
NORMAN - DOWNES.-On the 22nd March, at the residence of the bride's parents, by the Rev. H. G. Blackie, Edward, third son of George Norman, of Dublin, to Ada Elizabeth, third daughter of John Downes, Kalinda, Murray-street, East Prahran.

The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848-1954) - Friday 27 April 1900 p.1
NORMAN.-On the 26 April, at 72 Clarke-street, Prahran, Ada Elizabeth, the dearly beloved wife of Edward Norman, and third daughter of J. P. and M. J. Downes of 64 Murray-street, Prahran. ...

Looking for Edward's death.


Nothing much Dave,

Children for Edward Norman & Ada Elizabeth nee Downes
Hilda Winifred Norman 1895 Armadale Vic – died 1985 Greensborough Vic – no marriage

Twins: Gladys Hazel Norman & Dorothy Ada Norman 1900 Prahan Vic – they both died 1900 – buried 16th & 24th April 1900 – Funeral Notice.

Hilda Winifred Norman on 1916 ER at 67 Toorak rd South Yarra a clerk with Charles (an upholsterer) and Mary Ann Norman h/d.
could Charles be brother of Edward...

Thanks Val.

This is one of the harder ones and not just because it is Victoria.

Roll of Victorian Voters at the Federal Referendum 1899
NORMAN Edward, 14 Murray St, Prahran, Upholsterer

Edward Norman Male 1903 Victoria Flinders Bunyip South (farmer) ??

1903 VIC Electoral Roll - Southern Melbourne - South Yarra
NORMAN Edward, 15 Daly street, South Yarra, carpenter

1903 VIC Electoral Roll - Yarra - Richmond South
NORMAN Edward, 34 Gwynne st, S. Richmond, boxmaker
NORMAN Lizzie, 34 Gwynne st, S. Richmond, home duties

0524/1897 NORMAN Edw (b. Adelaide) - FREEMAN Elizth Caddy
1074/1908 NORMAN Edwd (b. Bendigo) - SLATER Flor
6071/1913 NORMAN Edwd - EDWARDS Stella
3770/1913 NORMAN Edwd Geo - BARNES Ellen Mabel

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NORMAN Chas EventMarriage Spouse McGHEE Mary Ann year1898 Reg. no6865

NORMAN Chas EventMarriage Spouse NcPHEE Mary Ann year1898 Reg. no6865

Not found a marriage notice so far.

A death with father George to match father of Edward.

Death NORMAN Chas Father Norman Geo Mother Mary Ann (Gallagher) year1940 Reg. no3620

Married to a Mary Ann but can't be sure it's the one with Hilda in 1916.
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They may be brothers and may both be upholsterers but proving it will not be easy.

Searching for Charles or Edward Norman AND upholsterer gets nothing of use.
Dave – a bit of a long shot… if Edward’s wife Ada Elizabeth died after giving birth to the twins (they died April 1900 too) and Hilda would be around 5 yrs, went to live with Edward’s brother Charles and wife Mary Ann and Edward took off..

Found a Vic Assisted & Unassisted Passenger list for 1889 which has
Edward Norman age 24 a Clerk, George Norman also Clerk age 25 and Charles Norman a clerk age 28 with a George Norman age 50 (reckon father) – departing London - Arrival date 21 July 1889 on ship “Garonne”

Edward Norman baptised 23 June 1864 Dublin – George Norman & Mary Ann Galagher FHL no: 101086

George Christopher Norman age 0 – born 25 Feb 1863 baptised 25 March 1963 St Nicholas (without) Dublin City – residence 9 Montague street – father George Mother Mary Ann Gallagher , John Kavanagh and a Lane ? Kavanagh witnesses. – possible for death – George C Norman 1908 Sydney NSW – parents George & Annie

Possible death for father George Norman 1929 Vic age 81 (b 1841) – John Norman & Mary Page – reg 7847

The Age – Monday 22 April 1940
NORMAN – On April 19 at his residence 103 Canterbury road, Toorak, Charles Norman dearly beloved husband of Mary Ann Norman aged 78 years. At Rest.

Charles's wife MAry Ann's death:

Name: Mary Ann Norman
Birth Year: abt 1862
Age: 81
Death Place: Gvale, Victoria
Father's name: Donald Mcphee
Mother's name: Ann Mcphee
Registration Year: 1943
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 3975

Mary Ann b 1861 Newstead Vic - correct parents - under McPhee
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Thanks Val.

I think that looks possible.

We know from the marriage the father is George. And we know that is daughter Hilda in 1916.

No Will on PROV for George senior.

There is only one death in the index in 1929 and a tree has a George born 1841 St Neots, Huntingdonshire and died Bairnsdale, Victoria on 9 Aug 1929.

Can't see a notice in Trove yet.

I'll have a look at George junior.

NORMAN GEORGE C 12394/1908 GEORGE ANNIE - SYDNEY * 15 Dec 1908

Can't see a notice in Trove. Not listed at RC Rookwood.

Not in Deceased Estates Index.

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Need to find a bit more to confirm the picture.

Death 1928 NORMAN George EventDeath Father Unknown Mother Unknown (Unknown) Vic. Reg. no6047

Searching the exact string "Charles Norman" or "George Norman" gets no hits in Trove.

fulltext:"Charles Norman"~0
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this lot are very illusive...

Name: Geo Norman
Birth Year: abt 1838
Age: 51
Death Place: Sandhurst, Victoria
Registration Year: 1889
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 9769

Wonder if this could be a possible for father – anyway of finding if it was after arrival in July 1889 as age fits..
marriage for George Norman & Mary Ann Gallagher

Name: George Alfred Norman
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 28 May 1860
Marriage Place: St Peter, Dub, Ire
Father: George Norman
Spouse: Mary Anne Gallagher – father James Gallagher
FHL Film Number: 101416
Reference ID: 2:3Q5GJC3
Same address.

Jewish Herald (Vic. : 1879 - 1920) Fri 5 Jan 1900 p.9
Mr. C. Norman, upholsterer and cabinet maker of 67 Toorak-road, has had many years' experience in England with some of the most eminent firms in the trade, and is prepared to do good work at a moderate price.


Late Maples London.

Why a clerk in the shipping record?

I can't see Charles in 1881 census.
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I've spent the afternoon at the local library looking at census records and electoral rolls.

I looked at Charles over the years to check who else might have been at the same address.

No help though.

Not sure what to think.

Charles advertising in Jewish Herald so unlikely to have been born Ireland.

I'll email the cemetery and ask if there is any Jewish connection to Joshua Jordan Memorial Lawn. Sent.

Springvale Botanical Cemetery Norman Charles Buried 22/04/1940
Joshua Jordan Lawn, Row D, Grave 17

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1903 VIC Electoral Roll - Southern Melbourne - South Yarra
NORMAN Charles, 67 Toorak road, South Yarra, upholsterer
NORMAN Mary, 67 Toorak road, South Yarra, home duties
NORMAN Edward, 15 Daly street, South Yarra, carpenter

Just Charles and Mary Ann in 1912 and 1919 at 67 Toorak road.
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Woo hoo – think I have found Edward Norman..

California Passenger & Crew List has an Edward Norman on steamship “Sierra” sailing from Sydney 13 May 1902 arriving San Francisco - California 2 June 1902, age as 37 yrs, single, an Upholster from Melb

Now did he stay/die over there ? and where is he on census rolls..
Thanks Val.

That age fits with the age in 1889 shipping record.

If that is the right arrival for George and his three sons then very curious Charles is not advertising before 1900 and in the Jewish Herald.

It would explain why Charles can't be found in 1891 census. 1881 ??

No sign of Edward in the departures from Victoria.

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No reply yet from Springvale cemetery.

The 1906 San Francisco earthquake ??

No further sign of Edward.
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I've received a reply from Springvale Cemetery. There is no Jewish connection to the Joshua Jordan Memorial Lawn.

Why was Charles only advertising in the Jewish Herald?