Edward RELF

[DaveHam9]

Hello,

Births Jun 1863
RELF Edward Stonham Medway 2a 385

Bit of a puzzle because I have a possible death for his mother ? in Mar Q 1863 in Medway.

I'd like a look up for Edward in 1871 please.

Regards,

Dave

 

[barbarajoh]

Only one born around 1863

RELF, Robert T Head M 37 1834 Hampshire
RELF, Sarah Wife F 38 1833 Worcestershire
RELF, George R Son M 11 1860 Devon
RELF, Edward J Son M 9 1862 Middlesex
RELF, Jessie H Daughter F 8 1863 Middlesex
RELF, Beatrice A Daughter F 7 1864 Kent
RELF, William A Son M 4 1867 Nottinghamshire
RELF, Edith M Daughter F 1 1870 Nottinghamshire
RELF, Harry H Son M 0 1871 Devon
PAWLEY, Grace Servant F 26 1845 Devon
PESCOE, Mary Louisa Servant F 17 1854 Cornwall
SANDERS, John Servant M 15 1856 Devon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
2153 Folio:
55 Page:
16 Registration District:
Okehampton

Civil Parish:
Okehampton Municipal Borough:
Okehampton Address:
Park Villa, Okehampton County:
Devonshire

Barbara

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Barbara,

Thank you very much.

That has Edward J born Middlesex so could be this one:

Births Jun 1861
Relf Edward John Kensington 1a 20

There is also one more:

Births Sep 1861
RELF Edward Medway 2a 326

1861 census 7 April.

This is the family in my tree:

1861
HO107 Piece 479 Folio 149 Page 1
Name: Hannah Rely
[Hannah Relf]
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Jno Joseph Rely
Gender: Female
Where born: Rochester, Kent, England
Civil parish: Gillingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Medway
Sub-RD: Gillingham
Jno Joseph Rely 62 Chatham Shipwright
Hannah Rely 46 Rochester
Hannah Rely 7 Chatham
Andrew Rely 6 Chatham
Agness R Rely 6 Chatham
Charlotte Rely 4 Gillingham
Walter Rely 2 Gillingham
Son - 2 Wks Gillingham

And a definite death :

Deaths Sep 1869
Relf John Joseph 71 Medway 2a 276

and a possible for Hannah:

Deaths Mar 1863
RELF Hannah Medway 2a 248

I can only find one death for an Edward 1861 - 1871:

Deaths Dec 1861
Relf Edward Medway 2a 204

So the son aged 2 weeks born Gillingham must be the one with birth registered in Medway in Sep Q 1861 and then looks as though he died in Dec Q of that year.

So that leaves the one with the middle name Stonham who should be around in 1871. With the birth registered in Medway I'm curious because I thought there was only one RELF family in that area. But there are other births so either a 2nd family or John Joseph remarried. There are no births 1866 to 1877. So those from 1877 are the next generation.

Have I lost you? :2fun:

 

[DaveHam9]

All the births in Medway after the Mar Q 1863 death of Hannah:

Births Jun 1863
RELF Edward Stonham Medway 2a 385

Births Dec 1863
RELF John Richard Medway 2a 367

Births Mar 1866
RELF Edith K Medway 2a 444

Births Sep 1866
Relf Emily F Medway 2a 403

That has to be two families not counting John Joseph's family, or his family plus one other family. Would mean he remarried or that death in Mar Q 1863 is not the death of his spouse Hannah.

 

[DaveHam9]

Barbara, I'm trying to confirm I have the right death for Hannah (b. 1815 Rochester, Kent), spouse of John Joseph.

 

[DaveHam9]

Found one other family in that area:

John Richard Relf
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 21 Dec 1863 St. Margaret,​ Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
residence: Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
parents: Frederick Relf,​ Elizabeth

 

[DaveHam9]

I can't see Agnes, Charlotte or Walter in 1871. But I can't see a death for any of them either 1861 - 1871.

 

[DaveHam9]

It fits:

name: Hannah Relf
gender: Female
burial date: 08 Feb 1863
burial place: Chatham, Kent, England
death date:
death place:
age: 48
birth date: 1815
birthplace:
occupation:
race:
marital status:
spouse's name:
father's name:
father's birthplace:
mother's name:
mother's birthplace:
indexing project (batch) number: B02022-9
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1473662
reference number: P85-1-90 p395 No3160

 

[barbarajoh]

Don't know if this helps one iota - Charlotte's marriage

Charlotte Relf
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1858
Age: 21
Father's Name: John Joseph Relf
Spouse's Name: James Hunter
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Father's Name: James Hunter
Marriage Date: 10 Feb 1879
Marriage Place: Gillingham, Kent, England

Barbara

 

[barbarajoh]

Charlotte in 1871?

Charlotte Relf
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil parish: New Brompton
Ecclesiastical parish: New Brompton St Mark
Town: Gillingham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 198
Piece: 907
Folio: 108
Page Number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Relf 27
Hannah Relf 17
Charlotte Relf 13
Walter Relf 12
Edward Conway 35
Charlotte Conway 28


The Conways are lodgers

Barbara

 

[barbarajoh]

Another Relf family inthe right area in 1871

Still no sign of Edward S.

Thomas Relf
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Relf
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Chatham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Household schedule number: 103
Piece: 909
Folio: 43
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Relf 45
Mary Ann Relf 41
Thomas Relf 20
Maria Relf 18
Jane Relf 16
Sideny Relf 11
Alice Relf 8
Frederick Relf 4
George Thorneycraft 61
Laweall Wood 22
Marion Webb 23
Julia Smith 20
Annie Green 22
Eliza Harris 19
Ann Crockford 22

Barbara

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Barbara.

I would say that is the family. We have Hannah, Charlotte & Walter and no Agnes R.


John Joseph RELF & Hannah GANDON
Marriage: 22 Dec 1850 Holy Trinity, Milton By Gravesend, Kent


I just realised something. I don't Have them in 1851 and didn't have daughter Ellen in my tree.

It says sister but that would mean Ellen was born way before the 1850 marriage.

 

[DaveHam9]

I can't see a marriage or a death for Agnes 1861 - 1871.

Now to find Ellen's birth. It should be after the 1850 marriage.

Births Sep 1855
Relf Ellen Susannah Medway 2a 268

That age 27 must be way out.

I can only find the birth reg for one Ellen 1842 - 1860 but there is no sister Ellen in the 1861 census.

Unless it's sister-in-law or cousin ???

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Barbara.

So there are 3 different families in that area:

John Joseph & Hannah
Frederick & Elizabeth
Thomas & Mary Ann

One more family and I can't explain 'sister' Ellen:

Ellen Susannah Relf
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 08 Aug 1855 St. Margaret,​ Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
residence: Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
parents: William Henry Relf,​ Jane


I can't see a RELF to an Ellen/Helen marriage 1861 - 1871.

Henry b. 1851
George Joseph b. 1853

are the only ones born after the marriage who could have married by 1871 census.

This is getting out of hand.

Henry Relf
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 08 Feb 1852 Saint Margaret,​ Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
residence: Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
parents: Richard Relf,​ Sarah

George Joseph Ralph
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 14 Aug 1853 St. Mary,​ Chatham,​ Kent,​ England
residence: Chatham,​ Kent,​ England
parents: George Ralph,​ Sarah Ralph

Neither of those are siblings of Charlotte so I can't see how Ellen can be sister or sister-in-law to Charlotte.

 

[DaveHam9]

I'm sleeping on it.

Catch you another time Barbara.

 

[barbarajoh]

Could it be this one?

Ellen Martha Relf
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1841
Registration district: Medway
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 5
Page: 323 (click to see others on page)

And in 1891

Ellen Relf
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Gillingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: New Brompton
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 660
Folio: 119
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Relf 49
John McCarthy 62

and in 1901 she is still there by herself but can't find her before that.

Barbara

 

[barbarajoh]

Now we are getting somewhere

Ellen Martha Relf
Gender: Unknown
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 May 1842
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary, Chatham, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Joseph Relf
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Maria Relf
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01735-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1473649
Reference Number: yrs 1837-1855 p 281


First marriage for John Joseph?

Barbara

 

[barbarajoh]

IGI has

John Thomas 1820 Chatham John/Maria Relf
Joseph 1823 ditto
Thomas 1825 ditto
Frederick 1839 ditto
Not sure if same family but possible

George 1827 ChathamJohn Joseph/Maria Relf
James 1829
Maria Susanna 1832
Reuben 1834
William 1837

Sounds like they are all the same family.

only marriage I can find is

John Relf
bride's name: Maria Daniel
marriage date: 1819
marriage place: Frindsbury, Kent, England
indexing project (batch) number: M16506-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1469343


Barbara

 

[DaveHam9]

Now we are getting somewhere

Ellen Martha Relf
Gender: Unknown
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 May 1842
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary, Chatham, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Joseph Relf
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Maria Relf
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01735-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1473649
Reference Number: yrs 1837-1855 p 281


First marriage for John Joseph?

Barbara

Hello Barbara,

Thank you very much.

That would explain it.

 

[DaveHam9]

IGI has

John Thomas 1820 Chatham John/Maria Relf
Joseph 1823 ditto
Thomas 1825 ditto
Frederick 1839 ditto
Not sure if same family but possible

George 1827 ChathamJohn Joseph/Maria Relf
James 1829
Maria Susanna 1832
Reuben 1834
William 1837

Sounds like they are all the same family.

only marriage I can find is

John Relf
bride's name: Maria Daniel
marriage date: 1819
marriage place: Frindsbury, Kent, England
indexing project (batch) number: M16506-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1469343


Barbara

Thanks Barbara.

That's a lot of children from 1819 to 1863.