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Edward RELF

DaveHam9

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#1
Hello,

Births Jun 1863
RELF Edward Stonham Medway 2a 385

Bit of a puzzle because I have a possible death for his mother ? in Mar Q 1863 in Medway.

I'd like a look up for Edward in 1871 please.

Regards,

Dave
 

barbarajoh

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#2
Only one born around 1863

RELF, Robert T Head M 37 1834 Hampshire
RELF, Sarah Wife F 38 1833 Worcestershire
RELF, George R Son M 11 1860 Devon
RELF, Edward J Son M 9 1862 Middlesex
RELF, Jessie H Daughter F 8 1863 Middlesex
RELF, Beatrice A Daughter F 7 1864 Kent
RELF, William A Son M 4 1867 Nottinghamshire
RELF, Edith M Daughter F 1 1870 Nottinghamshire
RELF, Harry H Son M 0 1871 Devon
PAWLEY, Grace Servant F 26 1845 Devon
PESCOE, Mary Louisa Servant F 17 1854 Cornwall
SANDERS, John Servant M 15 1856 Devon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
2153 Folio:
55 Page:
16 Registration District:
Okehampton

Civil Parish:
Okehampton Municipal Borough:
Okehampton Address:
Park Villa, Okehampton County:
Devonshire

Barbara
 

DaveHam9

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#3
Hello Barbara,

Thank you very much.

That has Edward J born Middlesex so could be this one:

Births Jun 1861
Relf Edward John Kensington 1a 20

There is also one more:

Births Sep 1861
RELF Edward Medway 2a 326

1861 census 7 April.

This is the family in my tree:

1861
HO107 Piece 479 Folio 149 Page 1
Name: Hannah Rely
[Hannah Relf]
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Jno Joseph Rely
Gender: Female
Where born: Rochester, Kent, England
Civil parish: Gillingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Medway
Sub-RD: Gillingham
Jno Joseph Rely 62 Chatham Shipwright
Hannah Rely 46 Rochester
Hannah Rely 7 Chatham
Andrew Rely 6 Chatham
Agness R Rely 6 Chatham
Charlotte Rely 4 Gillingham
Walter Rely 2 Gillingham
Son - 2 Wks Gillingham
And a definite death :

Deaths Sep 1869
Relf John Joseph 71 Medway 2a 276

and a possible for Hannah:

Deaths Mar 1863
RELF Hannah Medway 2a 248

I can only find one death for an Edward 1861 - 1871:

Deaths Dec 1861
Relf Edward Medway 2a 204

So the son aged 2 weeks born Gillingham must be the one with birth registered in Medway in Sep Q 1861 and then looks as though he died in Dec Q of that year.

So that leaves the one with the middle name Stonham who should be around in 1871. With the birth registered in Medway I'm curious because I thought there was only one RELF family in that area. But there are other births so either a 2nd family or John Joseph remarried. There are no births 1866 to 1877. So those from 1877 are the next generation.

Have I lost you? :2fun:
 

DaveHam9

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#4
All the births in Medway after the Mar Q 1863 death of Hannah:

Births Jun 1863
RELF Edward Stonham Medway 2a 385

Births Dec 1863
RELF John Richard Medway 2a 367

Births Mar 1866
RELF Edith K Medway 2a 444

Births Sep 1866
Relf Emily F Medway 2a 403

That has to be two families not counting John Joseph's family, or his family plus one other family. Would mean he remarried or that death in Mar Q 1863 is not the death of his spouse Hannah.
 
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DaveHam9

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#6
Found one other family in that area:

John Richard Relf
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 21 Dec 1863 St. Margaret,​ Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
residence: Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
parents: Frederick Relf,​ Elizabeth
 

DaveHam9

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#8
It fits:

name: Hannah Relf
gender: Female
burial date: 08 Feb 1863
burial place: Chatham, Kent, England
death date:
death place:
age: 48
birth date: 1815
birthplace:
occupation:
race:
marital status:
spouse's name:
father's name:
father's birthplace:
mother's name:
mother's birthplace:
indexing project (batch) number: B02022-9
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1473662
reference number: P85-1-90 p395 No3160
 

barbarajoh

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#9
Don't know if this helps one iota - Charlotte's marriage

Charlotte Relf
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1858
Age: 21
Father's Name: John Joseph Relf
Spouse's Name: James Hunter
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Father's Name: James Hunter
Marriage Date: 10 Feb 1879
Marriage Place: Gillingham, Kent, England

Barbara
 

barbarajoh

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#10
Charlotte in 1871?

Charlotte Relf
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil parish: New Brompton
Ecclesiastical parish: New Brompton St Mark
Town: Gillingham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 198
Piece: 907
Folio: 108
Page Number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Relf 27
Hannah Relf 17
Charlotte Relf 13
Walter Relf 12
Edward Conway 35
Charlotte Conway 28


The Conways are lodgers

Barbara
 

barbarajoh

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#11
Another Relf family inthe right area in 1871

Still no sign of Edward S.

Thomas Relf
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Relf
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England
Civil parish: Chatham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Chatham
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Household schedule number: 103
Piece: 909
Folio: 43
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Relf 45
Mary Ann Relf 41
Thomas Relf 20
Maria Relf 18
Jane Relf 16
Sideny Relf 11
Alice Relf 8
Frederick Relf 4
George Thorneycraft 61
Laweall Wood 22
Marion Webb 23
Julia Smith 20
Annie Green 22
Eliza Harris 19
Ann Crockford 22

Barbara
 

DaveHam9

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#12
Thanks Barbara.

I would say that is the family. We have Hannah, Charlotte & Walter and no Agnes R.


John Joseph RELF & Hannah GANDON
Marriage: 22 Dec 1850 Holy Trinity, Milton By Gravesend, Kent


I just realised something. I don't Have them in 1851 and didn't have daughter Ellen in my tree.

It says sister but that would mean Ellen was born way before the 1850 marriage.
 
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DaveHam9

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#13
I can't see a marriage or a death for Agnes 1861 - 1871.

Now to find Ellen's birth. It should be after the 1850 marriage.

Births Sep 1855
Relf Ellen Susannah Medway 2a 268

That age 27 must be way out.

I can only find the birth reg for one Ellen 1842 - 1860 but there is no sister Ellen in the 1861 census.

Unless it's sister-in-law or cousin ???
 
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DaveHam9

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#14
Thanks Barbara.

So there are 3 different families in that area:

John Joseph & Hannah
Frederick & Elizabeth
Thomas & Mary Ann

One more family and I can't explain 'sister' Ellen:

Ellen Susannah Relf
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 08 Aug 1855 St. Margaret,​ Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
residence: Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
parents: William Henry Relf,​ Jane


I can't see a RELF to an Ellen/Helen marriage 1861 - 1871.

Henry b. 1851
George Joseph b. 1853

are the only ones born after the marriage who could have married by 1871 census.

This is getting out of hand. :D

Henry Relf
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 08 Feb 1852 Saint Margaret,​ Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
residence: Rochester,​ Kent,​ England
parents: Richard Relf,​ Sarah

George Joseph Ralph
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 14 Aug 1853 St. Mary,​ Chatham,​ Kent,​ England
residence: Chatham,​ Kent,​ England
parents: George Ralph,​ Sarah Ralph

Neither of those are siblings of Charlotte so I can't see how Ellen can be sister or sister-in-law to Charlotte.
 
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barbarajoh

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#16
Could it be this one?

Ellen Martha Relf
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1841
Registration district: Medway
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 5
Page: 323 (click to see others on page)

And in 1891

Ellen Relf
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil parish: Gillingham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: New Brompton
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Gillingham
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 660
Folio: 119
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Ellen Relf 49
John McCarthy 62

and in 1901 she is still there by herself but can't find her before that.

Barbara
 

barbarajoh

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#17
Now we are getting somewhere

Ellen Martha Relf
Gender: Unknown
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 May 1842
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary, Chatham, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Joseph Relf
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Maria Relf
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01735-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1473649
Reference Number: yrs 1837-1855 p 281


First marriage for John Joseph?

Barbara
 

barbarajoh

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#18
IGI has

John Thomas 1820 Chatham John/Maria Relf
Joseph 1823 ditto
Thomas 1825 ditto
Frederick 1839 ditto
Not sure if same family but possible

George 1827 ChathamJohn Joseph/Maria Relf
James 1829
Maria Susanna 1832
Reuben 1834
William 1837

Sounds like they are all the same family.

only marriage I can find is

John Relf
bride's name: Maria Daniel
marriage date: 1819
marriage place: Frindsbury, Kent, England
indexing project (batch) number: M16506-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1469343


Barbara
 

DaveHam9

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#19
Now we are getting somewhere

Ellen Martha Relf
Gender: Unknown
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 May 1842
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary, Chatham, Kent, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Joseph Relf
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Maria Relf
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01735-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1473649
Reference Number: yrs 1837-1855 p 281


First marriage for John Joseph?

Barbara
Hello Barbara,

Thank you very much.

That would explain it.
 

DaveHam9

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#20
IGI has

John Thomas 1820 Chatham John/Maria Relf
Joseph 1823 ditto
Thomas 1825 ditto
Frederick 1839 ditto
Not sure if same family but possible

George 1827 ChathamJohn Joseph/Maria Relf
James 1829
Maria Susanna 1832
Reuben 1834
William 1837

Sounds like they are all the same family.

only marriage I can find is

John Relf
bride's name: Maria Daniel
marriage date: 1819
marriage place: Frindsbury, Kent, England
indexing project (batch) number: M16506-2
system origin: England-VR
source film number: 1469343


Barbara
Thanks Barbara.

That's a lot of children from 1819 to 1863. :eek:
 

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