Ethel LOCKWOOD and Florence & Thomas OLIVER

[BraisherT]

Hello all.

I have an ancestor named Ethel Mary LOCKWOOD, b 1892. She was living with her mother in the 1901 census in London, and then marries in Portsmouth in 1915. Ethel's mother died in 1909, and I had found two Ethel Mary Lockwoods in the 1911 census, one a servant and one found for me by someone on this forum, so I never knew which record was the right one. All I have for that second one are 'in the same house as Florence Minnie OLIVER (45) and Thomas OLIVER (44) in West Ham'. (Ethel's name is misspelt as Etehl)

Can anyone tell me more details about that 1911 census record, e.g what was Thomas's occupation, what was Ethel's relationship to head of house?

I have just twigged that Ethel's daughter Edna married a Denis Albert OLIVER (recorded variously as Dennis, Denis, and Albert Dennis) in 1941, and am slightly excited that he could be related to the Olivers that her mother *might* have been staying with in the 1911 census.

Is anyone able to see if the Florence and Thomas Oliver in question had any children with them in the 1901 or 1891 censuses? Any help much appreciated!

 

[stockpot]

in 1911 the second Ethel Mary is a servant to Thomas and Florence Oliver . he is a traveller (drapery) and they have been married 12 yrs with no children. Ethel was born Bow.

in 1901 there is an Ethel M Lockwood, age 9, born Bow, living in Bow with her parents Allen 37, hot water fitter and Alice 34. This looks like the Ethel who is with the Olivers in 1911.

Hope this helps
Elaine

 

[stockpot]

I have checked and Ethel M Lockwood married Henry G Denton in Portsmouth in 1915.

In the 1939 register at 531 Katherine Rd East Ham there is :-

Allen Lockwood, 3 Feb 1864, Mech Eng retired
Ethel M Denton, 12 Dec 1891, Slipper Bath attendant

no one else in the household.
The register doesn't give relationships but it looks like this must be the Ethel M Lockwood who married in 1915 now living with her father, everything fits for them to be the family in Bow in 1901.

The 1901 census says Allen born Huddersfield, Yorkshire, and Alice born Barking, Essex. There is also another daughter, Grace A age 4 born Bow.

That seems to tie up.
Elaine

 

[BraisherT]

Thank you Elaine. I had the census records (yes, that is the right Ethel, with Allen and Alice). However the 1939 register record is new to me, so that's lovely, thank you!

I just need to trace some help to trace Denis Albert Oliver backwards to see if he is somehow related to Florence and Thomas Oliver. (I found Florence Minnie Webster and Thomas Oliver marriage in West Ham in 1898, so they should show up together in 1901 census).

 

[BraisherT]

Actually on closer inspection you have done me a HUGE favour Elaine! The birthday for Ethel in the 1939 register doesn't match the birth record I had. So I have a confusion of Lockwoods somewhere along the line (I suspect just the wrong birth register record, but it could go further of course).

 

[stockpot]

Ethel May Denton born 10.12.1891 died in Colchester in 1972 Q2, does that fit with your family? (May and Mary often interchanged)

It seems her birth was registered Jan 1892,(you're allowed 6 wks to register, that can put it into the next year - perhaps that's your problem?) m.m.n. Ray and she was bapt. at Bromley (i.e. Bow) 11 May 1892.

Hope you have sorted it out!
Elaine

 

[stockpot]

Don't know whether you are still interested in Denis Albert Oliver but I have had a quick look at him, I think this is him:-

Edna G Denton m.m.n Lockwood, born 1919 Q4 West Ham
Denis A Oliver m. Edna G Denton Portsmouth 1941 Q3
Denis Albert Oliver b. 13.12.1918 d Southampton 1982
Denis A Oliver b. 1919 Q1 m.m.n. Davies
1939 Denis A Oliver 13.12.1918, aircraft inspector, living in a hostel in Portsmouth

So without further info it would not be possible to take Denis any further back. There are possible Oliver/Davies marriages for his parents but it would be guess work to know which is correct.

Regarding Thomas Oliver from 1911, he was born Roxburgh in the Scottish borders, In 1891 he was lodging in London and with him was a John Oliver, 2 yrs older, probably his brother.

From the 1911 census it seems John Oliver married Isobel Maude Solomon in London in 1901 so doesn't look as if he would be the father of Denis.

Let me know if you have any further info.
Elaine

 

[BraisherT]

Plenty to digest there, thank you! I think I just had the baptism date and the birth date muddled up, because I had added both to ancestry. Phew!

Re Denis - family members say his mum was Emily, so that gives us the most likely match as
Albert A Oliver m Emily E Davies Portsmouth (2b 1218 ) March 1918

I might dig around in the parish & 1911 census records next time ancestry have a free weekend and see if the marriage record has any more details. It may be the Florence/Thomas Oliver connection is just a red herring, but it's too intriguing to give up entirely!