first marriage of arthur ward

[rjshave]

I was wondering if anyone can help. Today I recieved a copy of my great grandfathers marriage certificate, for Arthur frederick ward and ruth toll and I was surprised to find out that arthur was a widower. We were all under the impression that ruth was arthur's first wife. Is there anyone who would be able to find out who his first wife was. He was born 1872 in holborn, london. his father was henry haggard and his mum was mary ann. He had children called arthur, frederick, edward and emily who may have been with his first wife. He later had amy and John with Ruth. Any help would be gratefully recieved. thanks

 

[gortonboy]

Hi,,,,given that Arthur married Ruth c1901/1902,,,and Arthur,Frederick,Edward and Emily were born after this time,,,,why do think they could be from his first wife ?

 

[gortonboy]

i am a little confused,,,did he marry Ruth TOLL....or TODD?

Arthur F Ward married Ruth Todd

Name: WARD, Arthur F
Registration District: Help Islington
County: London
Year of Registration: 1918
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Todd
Volume No: 1B
Page No: 339

Name: TODD, Ruth
Registration District: Islington
County: London
Year of Registration: 1918
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Ward
Volume No: 1B
Page No: 339

The 1911 census states his wife as Ruth,,,and that they had been married 9 years ? did he marry 2 Ruths?

 

[gortonboy]

seems there are 2 records,,,,both with the same reference?



Ruth Toll married Arthur F Ward

Name: TOLL, Ruth
Registration District: Islington
County: London
Year of Registration: 1918
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Ward
Volume No: 1B
Page No: 339

Name: WARD, Arthur F
Registration District: Islington
County: London
Year of Registration: 1918
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Todd
Volume No: 1B
Page No: 339

 

[gortonboy]

free bmd have it as TODD

Marriages Mar 1918


Todd Ruth Islington 1b 339
Ward Arthur F Islington 1b 339

 

[gortonboy]

I know its St Patricks night,,,,and ive had a Guinness or three,,,but free bmd have 2 birth references for this Amy?

Births Jun 1914

Ward Amy E Tell Paddington 1a 85
WARD Amy E Toll Paddington 1a 85

so did they not actually marry till 1918?
why all the confusion with the toll/todd/tell surname?

i need another drink :2fun:

 

[gortonboy]

my best guess is,,,,they had the kids out of wedlock,,,,decided to get married,,,,then to save themselves from any embaressment,,,Arthur said he was a widower,,,,,just a theory ???

 

[rjshave]

hi!
Arthur and Ruth definately married 1918! Ruth was a spinster and on the marriage certificate the l's do look a bit like d's, the type of writing they had back then which is where they get todd and toll. But can't understand why there is a long gap between having arthur, frederick, edward and emily and Amy and John.

 

[Wheezyanna]

Is it possible that they 'lost' a child at all?

Just a thought

Happy Hunting

Claire

 

[oznannie]

Not of much help
1881 Arthur is born in St George the Martyr London
1901 there's a Arthur F 29 he's a grocer single
30 New Rd Rotherhithe

ozn

 

[oznannie]

Hi Gortonboy
Ruth who you found in 19## census married 9 yrs
Please could you list other details, her age, birthplace & the kiddies
too?

Thank you
ozn

 

[gortonboy]

hi ozn...i have pmd you

 

[oznannie]

Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to pm me.
It's very much appreciated.

ozn

 

[rjshave]

thank you very much to both of you for looking into this request for me. It really means alot to me and family

 

[oznannie]

The saying goes you live and learn.
I do everyday.
I've never heard of Colney Hatch where Ruth in 19## was born.
Thank goodness for Google

1881 has a Ruth Toll 2yrs living in Friern Barnet
could this be her?
(she was 30 in 19blah blah census)

ozn

I looked in familysearch beta & couldn't find any baptism for the kiddies from 19## census

 

[rjshave]

Hi, I do believe that Ruth is the same ruth living in Friern Barnet aged 2 as Colney Hatch is in the same area. I guess the only way to confirm that Ruth Toll is the mother of Arthur, Frederick, Edward and Amy is to obtain their birth certificates!
Do you know what full means when it is written in the age catergory on the marriage certificate?
Many thanks again

 

[rjshave]

just come up with another possible scenerio, that maybe Arthur married somebody else in the 1890's, in his twenties and she died before 1901. He then went on to meet Ruth in 1902 and had his children? :s

 

[oznannie]

Hi RJ
I think full age means over 21.

ozn

 

[rjshave]

thank you ozn