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Frank Hogg, wife Phoebe & child murdered

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#1
I am looking for information regarding Frank Hogg and his wife Phoebe who was murdered along with their infant child Tiggie Phoebe in 1890.

Franks brother Alex Freeman is my great, great grandfather.

I have read information that I have searched for on the internet regarding the case and now know it quite well. However, I need more information regarding Alex and Franks parents because they are my lineage.

My grandmother (Alex's granddaughter) told me that Alex's last name is Freeman due to this case being such a scandal that they had to change their last name. I have not found information of this because like I said before, I have hit a brick wall. She told me I would and that there wasn't a lot of known information out there.

The only information I have on Frank and Alex's mother is that she was an invalid and lived with their sister Clara. I have gathered that and some dates from the articles I have read.

I am looking for any knowledge regarding the lineage of Frank & Alex, their siblings, parents, grandparents etc. Any help is greatly appreciated as I live in the United States and cannot simply go somewhere publicly and find the information.
 

gibbo

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#2
Not sure if you have this already or not.

1881 UK census

name: Frank Hogg
age: 21
gender: Male
birth year: 1860
birthplace: St Pancras, Middlesex, England
relationship to head of household: Son
marital condition: Single
profession/occupation: Assistant Grocer
address: 87 King St
census place: St Pancras, Middlesex, England

head Maria H Hogg F 60 Thurston, Suffolk, England
daughter Clara M Hogg F 24 St Pancras, Middlesex, England
son Frank Hogg M 21 St Pancras, Middlesex, England


Maria is noted as a widow in the above census

https://familysearch.org/
 
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#5
Gibbo, I have another question maybe you can help me with since I'm new to census information.

Would it only list her children as Clara and Frank because they were living at home during time of census?

I am beginning to wonder if Alex wasn't a brother of Frank after all.

This is how my grandmother put it to me:

She stated I would run into trouble with kin before Alex because of a murder scandal involving her uncle whose mistress killed his wife and child. She then told me the wifes name was Phoebe as was the childs.

I am assuming she did not refer to him as a great uncle and only an uncle. However now I am scratching my head because I find no information referencing Alex as a brother to Frank or Clara. I do know there is also an Edwin who is a brother because he is referenced in an article I read he is listed as a brother in law to Phoebe.

Am I taking a wrong turn here or just not finding all the information? I am building a tree with software and really do want to put in incorrect information.
 

gibbo

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#6
The only people listed on the census are the ones who were present the night the census was filled out. Hence Frank could be her child but not at that address on the night of the census.

I have googled and as we know from all reports Clara was a sister to Frank but there has been no mention of a Alex in any of the bits i have read.

Do you know when Alex was supposedly born and where? We might be able to find a birth or find him on a census under either Hogg or Freeman. Also who did Alex marry? And which name did he marry under?
 
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#7
I do not have dates for Alex. This is the information I do have on him.

Alex Freeman Married Mabel Roberts

They had 3 daughters:

Adelaide Elizabeth May Young [Freeman]

Lillian Moore [Freeman]

Edith Matthews [Freeman]

Adelaide is my great grandmother. She married William Donald Young who was born around 1914. They had 7 children.

Jean May Hunt [Young] - My grandmother born 1936, still living

John Young - Twin brother to Jean, died at age 4 in 1940

William (Billy) Young who is now William Charles Moore and living in Australia

Kenny Young- died about 1993

Stella Knight [Young] - died around 1998 in New Zealand

Susan Chambers [Young] - I believe still alive

Margaret Barnham [Young] - deceased



Stella has a son Paul who named his daughter Phoebe after the woman and child who lost their lives. So I know that we are connected here, just not sure if I am headed down the right road here. This is all the information I have on my great grandfathers side.
 
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#8
I found this:



nameAlex Freeman
eventCensus
event date31 Mar 1901
genderMale
age50
relationship to head of householdHead
birthplaceLambeth, London
record typeHousehold
registration districtLambeth
sub-districtLambeth Church First
ecclesiastical parishSt Mary
civil parishLambeth
countyLondon, Middlesex

If he was born in 1851, that would have made Maria 30 when he was born if she was his mother. That to me seems old to be having a child in that time period.
 

gibbo

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#9
:2fun::2fun: Nah not old. Most did have kids before that age and she may have as well. She may have lost some as well which was common back then.

I have the time zone thing happening so im heading to bed but will leave this link with you to have a look if you havent already seen it. Otherwise i will have another look at it for you in my morning.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
 
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#10
I suppose it may seem odd to me because my moms mom had her first child at 13, second at 15 and my mother was her late life baby at 26 and that was in 1967. I myself had my first at 21 and my second at 22 so maybe I'm not so far off here as I think I am.

Thank you for your help so far! I forget time is different for you as I am just starting my day here!

If I find anything else I will post it. Again, thanks for the help so far.
 
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#11
I believe this is Clara in the 1901 Census. The birthdate and age match up with the 1881 Census except the birthplace lists her as being born in St Pancras, Middlesex, England on the 1881 Census.



name Clara Hogg
event Census
event date 31 Mar 1901
gender Female
age 44
relationship to head of household Wife
birthplace Stroud, Gloucestershire
record type Household
registration district Stroud
sub-district Stroud
ecclesiastical parish Stroud St Lawrence
civil parish Stroud
county Gloucestershire
 
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#12
I believe I found Frank after the name change of Hogg to Freeman.

Clara was born in Middlesex so I believe my guessing of Frank also being born in Middlesex would be correct as they are 3 years a part in age. This would also make the age correct if he was born in 1860 and the census was recorded in 1891. This also correlates with Phoebe and Tiggie's deaths in 1890.



name Frank Freeman
event Census
event date 1891
gender Male
age 31
relationship to head of household Son
birthplace Middlesex
record type Household
registration district Birkenhead
sub-district Wallasey
ecclesiastical parish St Pauls
civil parish Poulton With Seacombe
county Cheshire

This would also match my grandmothers story that they changed their last name and moved to escape the tragic scandal.
 
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#14
An Alexander James Freeman married a Mabel Roberts in 1913 in Poplar, London.

He was aged 25 and father is given as Alexander James Freeman.

This would appear to be the right marriage, as a child, Adelaide E M Roberts Freeman, mothers maiden name Roberts was born in Poplar in 1914.
 
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#15
An Alexander James Freeman married a Mabel Roberts in 1913 in Poplar, London.

He was aged 25 and father is given as Alexander James Freeman.

This would appear to be the right marriage, as a child, Adelaide E M Roberts Freeman, mothers maiden name Roberts was born in Poplar in 1914.
Thank you for this information annswabey. Do you see where I am having the issue of being unsure if Frank Samuel Hogg is the brother of Alexander Freeman? Now I am even more unsure due to Alexanders father also being listed as a Freeman.
 
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#16
Maria couldnt have been Alexanders mother if he was born in 1887 or 1888. She was born in 1821. That means Frank is NOT his brother.

The brickwall has been hit and now I have to delete information. Darn.
 
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juliejtp

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#17
Hi,

A maybe for Frank and Phoebes daughters baptism.

July 7th 1889 - Parish poor law - Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity - Borough Camden

Phoebe Haslope Hogg
Father Frank Samuel Hogg - occupation carman
Mother Phoebe

Address 141 Prince of Wales Road
 

juliejtp

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#18
Hi,

The family in 1861

Civil parish St Pancras - Reg district Pancras - RD Camden Town

James Hogg age 41 occ grocer and tea dealer born Bury St Edmunds Suffolk
Maria wife age 42 born Throston? Suffolk
Edwin C son age 14 born Pentonville Middlesex
James son age 11 born Pancras Middlesex
Clara m daughter age 6 born Pancras
Frank son age 1 born Pancras

Class RG9
Piece 116
Folio 16
Page 25
 
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#19
Hi,

A maybe for Frank and Phoebes daughters baptism.

July 7th 1889 - Parish poor law - Haverstock Hill Holy Trinity - Borough Camden

Phoebe Haslope Hogg
Father Frank Samuel Hogg - occupation carman
Mother Phoebe

Address 141 Prince of Wales Road
This information is correct but I have found her listed as Tiggie Phoebe Haslope Hogg and other places as just Phoebe Haslope Hogg.
 
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#20
Hi,

The family in 1861

Civil parish St Pancras - Reg district Pancras - RD Camden Town

James Hogg age 41 occ grocer and tea dealer born Bury St Edmunds Suffolk
Maria wife age 42 born Throston? Suffolk
Edwin C son age 14 born Pentonville Middlesex
James son age 11 born Pancras Middlesex
Clara m daughter age 6 born Pancras
Frank son age 1 born Pancras

Class RG9
Piece 116
Folio 16
Page 25
See I had found an Alexander James born 1850 which would coincide with James being 11 in 1861 Census. However, as someone pointed out earlier the Alex Freeman I am looking for is listed as Alexander James Freeman with father as Alexander James Freeman as well.

I now do not believe that my great, great grandfather Alexander James Freeman is brother to Frank Samuel Hogg as I had previously thought. However, the Hoggs still fit in my family lineage somewhere except now I just dont know where.
 

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