Frank Walter Odell Brick Wall - Help!!

[scratchy907]

Hi

I am having THE most difficult time tracing my ancestor Frank Walter Odell. I don't know where to look next.

Here is what I know:

Born 1885 in Sandy, Bedfordshire.

married Eliza Jane Comer in 1911 (this was discovered only recently)

had a child Frank Reginald Odell 1911 - 1912.

By 1915 he was living with my Great Grandmother (Emma Louisa Young) and they had a child Elise Mary Ellen Odell. We did not know that he hadn't married my G. Grandmother (we can find no record of a marriage and he is listed as the husband of Eliza Jane Odell on her DC in 1958 ). It states he is deceased. He did not die until 1966!

He also had another son in 1918 with my G. Grandmother - Albert Odell - but again, no birth certificate seems to exist. I have no information on his movements during WW1 and there is a family rumour that he may have been a deserter from the army but we have no proof.

Does anyone know how I can begin to untangle this?!? I am so very grateful for any ideas!!

 

[davelambert271]

Frank W Odell married Eliza J Comer - Dec qtr 1911 Brentford ref 3a 360

Frank Reginald Odell born Dec qtr 1911 Brentford ref 3a 398 - mother Comer

Elsie Mary Odell born Jun Qtr 1915 Brentford ref sa 385 - mother Young

Arthur H Odell born Dec qtr 1916 Hatfield ref 3a 162 - mother Young

as you say, no marriage of Frank and Emma, or birth of Albert, so far

dave

 

[scratchy907]

thank you for the help!

Yes, I have the above information just as you do - but that is as far as I have been able to get.

The 1911 census you sent me I don't believe is the correct one as none of the other family members match. Also, he was living in Acton, Middlesex from 1891.

His father's name was William Odell and mother's Emily Odell - who I DO have in 1911. But not Frank.

He seems to have disappeared after the 1911 marriage and birth of his first son. The only paper reference his name appears on is the BC of my Grandmother (Elsie Mary Ellen Odell).

I think there may be more to this story than I have been able to uncover and I'd love to find out what! He came from a large family (who he never spoke of and we never knew) who were all soilders in WW1. Again, there doesn't appear to be any reference to him during the war either...

You can see why I am having so much trouble tracing him! His son Albert once asked for a copy of his birth certificate so that he could purchase some life insurance and the story goes that Frank's reply was 'we don't have a copy, you're under a different name' and then refused to talk about it further.

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to unravel this!!

 

[juliejtp]

Hi,

Have you looked under Young for Albert's birth?

 

[juliejtp]

Hi,

The 1911 census has a Frank Odell born abt 1886 in the military, Lichfield, Staffordshire. Putting Sandy or Bedfordshire for place of birth dosn't bring this one up, so I don't know this Franks place of birth.

 

[davelambert271]

If as you say Albert was born under another name, I wonder if the Arthur H born 1916 to mother Young, is him. Hatfield is not far from Bedford

dave

 

[davelambert271]

Hi,

The 1911 census has a Frank Odell born abt 1886 in the military, Lichfield, Staffordshire. Putting Sandy or Bedfordshire for place of birth dosn't bring this one up, so I don't know this Franks place of birth.

It gives his place of birth as United states of America

dave

 

[leefer]

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~elyandra/h_odell.htm

Is this your work Scratchy?

 

[scratchy907]

wow - that's a LOT of information on an Odell family. But no, that is not mine.

juliejtp - I looked at that Frank as well, but USA wasn't right.

Davelambert271 - I have looked under Young for Albert (his son) and no luck there. Arthur I don't think is right either as my great uncle was born in 1918 not 1916 - he was definitely a few years younger than my Grandmother who was born in 1915.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello,

How can you be sure it's 1918? Hearsay? And what else? I know some births were not registered and I know some were registered but have been lost or transcribed incorrectly into the various databases - I know because I can't find the birth of my great grandfather born about 1854 Liverpool, Lancs.

Regards,

Dave

 

[scratchy907]

Of course you are right.

His birth could have been registered (or not) at a different time. While he was alive, he was told his birthday was 23rd January 1918. He was a couple of years younger than my grandmother and they were very close.

We recently found out that Frank had a sister also called Elsie Mary Ellen which leads me to believe he must have been close to her to give his daughter the same name? She was born in 1888.

My G. Grandmother was only 15 or 16 when she had my Grandmother so her age coupled with Frank's marriage to Eliza Jane Comer must be the reason they never married. On Franks daughter's birth certificate, Emma Louisa Young is listed as Emma Louisa Odell formerly Young (which we know to be incorrect) so if they are falsifying information on birth certificates and hiding the fact that they are not married, then they could have done anything with Albert's birth records for any number of reasons!!

 

[DaveHam9]

Things like that make it a double brick wall.

You have to decide if it's worth getting a copy of a birth on spec.

I was looking for my great grandfather and got this one knowing there were many variations of the name BLACKLEY but it turned out not to be the right one. Now I'm stuck because there are not other possibles. Registrations exist for siblings.


Births Mar 1854 *** Not the right one ***
Blekley Thomas W Derby 8b 357

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
I find it strange that you are looking for two births Elsie Mary Ellen and Albert.
The only two births for Odell, mother Young at that time are Elsie Mary Ellen and Arthur H, plus a William F born Sep qtr 1923 Hatfield.

You say Frank Walter had a sister Elsie, father William. I haven't looked further yet, but could this be them in 1901

1901 England Census
Name: William Odell
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Sandon Bedfordshire, England (could be Sandy?)

Civil parish: Ealing
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Ealing
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Brentford

Piece: 1193 Folio: 54 Page Number: 6

William Odell 46 Labourer (Looks like Lands/Sands, could it be Sandy
Frank Odell 15 Lands
Elsie Odell 12 Ealing
Phyllis Odell 8 Ealing
Charles Clarke 25 Visitor Lands

dave

 

[davelambert271]

You have probably got this but it confirms its your family, plus gives Emily's brother and therefor maiden name

ODELL, William Head Married M 36 1855 General Labourer Biggleswade, Beds
ODELL, Emily Wife Married F 36 1855 Sandy Bedfordshire
ODELL, Mable Daughter F 14 1877 Domestic Servant Sandy Bedfordshire
ODELL, Frederick Son M 11 1880 Scholar Sandy Bedfordshire
ODELL, William Son M 10 1881 Scholar Sandy Bedfordshire
ODELL, Reginald Son M 8 1883 Scholar Sandy Bedfordshire
ODELL, Frank Son M 5 1886 Scholar Sandy Bedfordshire
ODELL, Elsie Daughter F 2 1889 Ealing Middlesex
BUTCHER, George Brother In Law Married M 28 1863 General Labourer Sandy Bedfordshire

Piece:1030 Folio:104 Page:6

Registration District:Brentford
Civil Parish: Twyford Abbey Ealing
Address: 16, St Marys Place, Twyford Abbey Ealing, Ealing Middlesex

dave

 

[scratchy907]

Yes I have that information thank you. Sandon is a typo - it should be Sandy.

George Butcher is a brother in law of William - Emily's maiden name was Usher although her parents are listed as Clark in the census. (Her mother had Emily before she married and became a Clark - Emily then took the name Clark). I have more information on the Odells several generations back than I do on my G. Grandfather!!

I can trace Frank's movements up until the death of his first son in 1912. After that he becomes a mystery. I am not investigating my Grandmother, Elsie Mary Ellen Odell, I have her information and birth certificates...

Her brother remains a mystery however and so does Frank's movements. The problems I am having stem from the fact that he wouldn't talk about his past while he was alive and since his death we have discovered his wife and first child and many family members would love to uncover the truth surrounding the family rumour that he was a deserter in the army.

We only discovered all these things after he died and we couldn't find any paperwork - no marriage certificate for him and my grandmother, no birth certificate for his son, no world war one paperwork etc....

 

[davelambert271]

What a shame, there is a fairly comprehensive army record of Frank's brother Reginald, but I can't find Frank.

dave

 

[juliejtp]

Hi,

Do you know if Albert had a middle name?

 

[scratchy907]

Yes - I have Frederick's service records too!!

We don't know if there was a middle name or not. Everyone believes not, but after the eye opening things we've discovered recently, who knows??

 

[scratchy907]

Here is a copy of Emma Louisa Young's (my G. Grandmother) BC. Can anyone read the maiden name of her mother?

I can see Martha Young formerly ????

I was wondering if I could trace her family further I might get some clues as to where she may have been in 1911 and how she may have met Frank a few years later....

Clutching at straws now!!!

Thanks for any ideas....

 

[juliejtp]

Hi,

Was Emma born 1895 district Brentford?