Frederick William Hayden

[kittyswhiskas]

Hi, I need some help.
My great grandfather was Frederick William Hayden. I have found him on the 1911 census living in Woodforde Green, Essex. He was living with his wife Kate (was Robinson born Ashford, Kent 1881) and my grandfather (Thomas William) and his siblings. On the census Frederick details his birth place as Leeds, Yorkshire in about 1876.
I have Frederick's marriage certificate to Kate which details Frederick's father as an Edwin Coombe (?) Hayden, a veterinary surgeon who was deceased at the time of marriage (1904)
Absolutely nowhere can I find Frederick on a census prior to 1911 or a birth. I have found other Frederick Haydens born around the same time and in Leeds or Essex, but upon checking does not tie up to Edwin being the father. And that's another problem, nowhere can I find an Edwin Hayden who might tie in with my Frederick!
Other interesting facts: Frederick and Kate were living at Claybury Asylum, Ilford at the time of their marriage. Frederick was an attendant and Kate was a nurse. Frederick (so I am told) donated his body to medical science. I cannot find a death for him.
Any help or information would be most gratefully received as I am slowly pulling my hair out.

 

[horse]

Hi and welcome

This appears to be Kate in 1901, using the details from 1911.

Name: Kate Robinson
Born abt 1878 Ashford, Kent
Occ: Servant

Ecclesiastical parish: St Mildreds
County: Kent
RD: Tenterden
Sub-RD: Tenterden
ED: Tenterden Union Workhouse
RG13; Piece: 779; Folio: 85

Still nothing on Fredrick

Geoff

 

[kittyswhiskas]

Yeah, I had come across that entry, but dismissed it as the birth year was a bit far out. But as I have learnt along the way the census weren't always an science back then!
I have found a death entry for a Frederick W Hayden,

Name: Frederick W Hayden
Birth Date: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Jun 1939
Age at Death: 63
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 38

I have ordered a copy of the death certificate, but even if it is his, quite where he was pre 1911 and why I can't find his father is a mystery.

 

[DaveHam9]

I've had a look and nothing seems to fit. I have doubts Leeds is correct. Essex keeps cropping up. I also can't find an Edwin C who might fit. I can't even find a Frederick who looks right in 1881 even allowing for variations of HAYDEN. A real puzzle.

 

[juliejtp]

Hi, This one may be worth looking into.

1901
Civil parish Leeds
RD Leeds
Sub RD South east Leeds

Fredk Wm Hayd-n age 24 visitor occ -----boy milk born Texas America

Class RG13
Piece 4219
Folio 30
Page 11

 

[davelambert271]

I too have looked hard without any luck. I have also had doubts about Leeds. Yorkshire, as I thought it may be Leeds (castle) Kent, not too far from Ashford

I was also looking at a census entry for a William Samuel Hayden 1879 a lunatic asylum attendant in Ilford, Romford, 1901 RG13-1652-105-4


JULIE reads Cowboy (milk). in other words a male milkmaid
dave

 

[horse]

I was also looking at a census entry for a William Samuel Hayden 1879 a lunatic asylum attendant in Ilford, Romford, 1901 RG13-1652-105-4

Dave, that 1901 census is actually Claybury Asylum the same one that Kitty cited in post #1, surely that is more than coincidence, that a William and Frederick were both there.

 

[davelambert271]

would it be possible to post a copy of the marriage cert, please

dave

 

[kittyswhiskas]

My sister has cert at the mo, I will get her to send me a copy and then I will try to copy on here.

 

[kittyswhiskas]

Link to certificate:

http://o.mfcreative.com/f4/exports/3/3cafdbac-7431-4696-b21f-642fe8e72656/Marriage%20Certificate.pdf

 

[davelambert271]

right - first, thanks for the copy cert, although I don't think it helps so far although I haven't checked out the witnesses yet.

I have a theory.

Frederick William was in fact called Smith born Jan 14th 1877 St Lukes Leeds
his parents were Edwin Coombe Smith and Jane Isabella Gorman. They married Sep qtr 1873 Leeds ref 9b 742

Edwin Combe Smith died Dec qtr 1899 Leeds 9b 308

1891 - RG12-3696-82-9
Ed Coombe Smith 47 Coachman Hampshire
Jane I 44 Ireland
Jame Henry 16 Leeds
Frederick Wm 14 Leeds
Ed B 8 Wetherby

1881 - RG11-4524-12-24
Edwin C Smith 37 Coachman Meonstoke Hamps
Jessie 34 Ireland
James K 6 Leeds
Frederick W 4 Leeds

1871 -

1861 - RG10-1216-30-17
Henry Smith 56 Ernley Sussex
Elizabeth 47 Corhampton
John 22
Mary Ann 19
Jane 15

continued next post

 

[davelambert271]

1861 - RG9-697-59-9
Henry Smith 45 Ernley Labourer
Elizabeth 47 Corhampton
Edwin C 17 Meonstoke Carpenter
William 14 Meonstoke
John 12 Meonstoke
Ellen 10 Meonstoke
Mary Ann 8 Meonstoke
Jane 6 Meonstoke

1851 - HO107-1676-185-9

1841 - HO107-387-18/8-11

So Edwin died 1899, before Frederick Married. Did Jane re marry before the marriage to a Mr Hayden and the family take his name. I have yet to find this. Was Mr Hayden a Vet because Edwin was a coachman. Did Fred make up this occupation to make it look as if he was more important, and did Fred just adopt the name. It certainly looks as if something drastic took place around 1900

dave

 

[juliejtp]

Hi,

A death registered 1900 - Jan/Feb/Mar - Leeds

Jane Isabella Smith
Age 53
Born about 1847

 

[kittyswhiskas]

This is an interesting theory, one which I hadn't thought about before. I'll do some digging around and see what I can come up with. Thank you.

 

[davelambert271]

looking at the 1891 census,
Edwin died 1899
Jane died 1900
James henry married an older woman before 1901 and stayed in Leeds
Ed B was working in 1901 as a Butler in Leeds
that just leaves Frederick Wm to find in 1901. Did he join the army and change his name, or is the William Samuel Hayden at Ilford Asylum him, or is it Frederick Wm Hayden, our cowboy Julie posted earlier

dave

 

[kittyswhiskas]

Me and my sister had laughed when we found the Frederick Hayden - Cowboy. But some of my elderly relatives can remember my grandad having american relatives, so could be possible.
I had a root around on the passenger lists, but i couldn't find Frederick William Hayden (or any variation of that name) coming into the uk. He is a real mystery.
A question regarding marriage certificates: were the details given checked? I mean, could my great grandfather have said his name was Frederick William and nobody would check that, or did they have to provide evidence?

 

[davelambert271]

I don't know but from the info given on certificates I don't think you needed any proof of anything in 1900. things have changed now and you need at least your passport/photo driving licence and proof of address. Certainly people invented fathers

dave