Free BDM Duplicate entries

[Battlecrease]

Hi All, I`m brand new to family history and although I understand the basics of obtaining information from the GRO records office I have searched on BDM for a marriage, and it has returned a result of four names 2 male & 2 females all with the same page No, volume and district entry so I sent for the two that I assumed were mine and my money was refunded (I`m assuming because my selection were not married to each other) so I sent for the other pairs certificate and this also was refunded and returned again I am assuming that this pair was also not married to each other. So, my question is how can this happen the only combination that I have not tried is to send for the marriage certificate for the two blokes marrying each other but seeing that this took place in 1868 in think that it would be highly unlikely. So do you have any ideas how this can happen and how am I best resolving the issue.
Thanks in advance.
Terry

 

[p.risboy]

If you give gives the details, then perhaps the members may be able to help further.

Welcome to FHUK forums, good luck with your research.

 

[Battlecrease]

Thanks for your speedy reply
The result that I get when I search BDM is:
Marriages Sep 1868

Cain Agnes West Derby 8b 831
Doyle Catherine West Derby 8b 831
Smith John West Derby 8b 831
Smyth James West Derby 8b 831

1st point how can four people be recorded as marrying under the same District, Page & Volume?
2nd point how can both combinations requested be refunded as they have not married each other (I assume that is the reason for refund)
I am baffled, any assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated

 

[DaveHam9]

There can be 2, 4, 6 or 8 or an odd number if one is missing or if one is duplicated because the name is not clear on the same page.

I think there would be a different reason for the refund.

 

[DaveHam9]

There is an error somewhere.

I am having trouble finding them in 1871 census and finding births that match mother's maiden name to pair them up.

I'm wondering if there are two names missing.

 

[Battlecrease]

Hi Dave, Thanks for your reply
I have viewed the original scanned copies of all four entries, and all are type written present and legible, would you know if a reason for refund is usually provided? I have checked my original request and all information is provided as requested.
Thanks.

 

[DaveHam9]

It's been many years since I've purchased any English certificates and no, I don't know if a reason for a refund is usually provided.

Marriage - name, year, quarter, volume and page.

 

[emeltee]

Like Dave, I cannot find anything relating to a James Smyth with either Catherine or Agnes nor for a John Smith with a Catherine or Agnes.

Exactly which names are you looking for and what information do you have on these people?

 

[Battlecrease]

I am looking for the maiden name of Agnes who married John Smith I believe in Sept 1/4 1868 they had two children
William John DOB 14/07/1872, Baptised 21/01/1873 ,Wed Annie McGuinnes 6/8/1893
Sarah Ann Baptised 19/01/1870, Wed John Henry Clayton 25/12/1886
I can find them on 1871,1881,1901,1911 & possibly 1939 census but I am struggling to identify Agnes maiden name.
Thanks.

 

[p.risboy]

William John Smith in Liverpool, the GRO, has no mothers name mentioned.

SMITH, WILLIAM JOHN -
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 187

Sarah Ann Smith in Liverpool.................choice of 2 births in the GRO, with mothers maiden names of Brice and Nugent.

SMITH, SARAH ANN mmn. BRICE
GRO Reference: 1870 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 43

SMITH, SARAH ANN mmn. NUGENT
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 127

 

[p.risboy]

1881 census.

Name: John Smith
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Agnes Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Kirkdale
Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 17 Dryburgh St
Occupation: Painter
Registration District: West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Piece: 3677
Folio: 65
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
John Smith 34
Agnes Smith 35
Sarah Smith 12
William Smith 9
Charles Fitzsimmons 36
Elizabeth Fitzsimmons 20
Dennis Fitzsimmons 1

 

[Battlecrease]

Thanks for your help I will look into Brice & Nugent with fingers crossed, just out of curiosity how did you obtain the two maiden names?

 

[p.risboy]

Thanks for your help I will look into Brice & Nugent with fingers crossed, just out of curiosity how did you obtain the two maiden names?

From the GRO web site. The births are from 2 different quarters in the same birth year, for Sarah Ann Smith.

To be honest, you should have purchased the birth cert both children, before searching for a marriage.

 

[emeltee]

I have looked everywhere I can think of but cannot find a marriage for John and Agnes. The only birth ref I can see for William John has no mother's maiden name given which usually implies illegitimacy. I haven't found a birth ref for Sarah Ann bearing in mind the fact that she was baptised 19 January 1870 it is likely she was born 1869.

It is always possible that, for whatever reason, they never actually married.

 

[emeltee]

Haviing said the above I have just found this on Lancs OPC

Marriage: 23 Sep 1866 St Catharine, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Smith - (X), 20, Painter, Bachelor, 22 Union St.
Agnes Divine Gray - 21, Spinster, 22 Union St.
Groom's Father: John Smith, Engineer
Bride's Father: William Divine Gray, deceased, Builder
Witness: Daniel Murphy, (X); Jane Murphy, (X)
Married by Banns by: Joseph Ridley Curate
Register: Marriages 1863 - 1873, Page 78, Entry 156
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

 

[Battlecrease]

Thank you,
I will do a bit more digging using the information that you have provided.

Thanks again

 

[emeltee]

Sarah Smith Jun 1869 W Derby 8b 315 mmn Gray
William Smith Mar 1872 Liverpool 8b 74 mmn Gray

Looks like the marriage in Wigan is the correct one.

 

[Battlecrease]

Sarah Smith Jun 1869 W Derby 8b 315 mmn Gray
William Smith Mar 1872 Liverpool 8b 74 mmn Gray

Looks like the marriage in Wigan is the correct one.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

You have been a tremendous help and I really appreciate your guidance; in your personal opinion do you recommend that I should now send for either William or Sarahs birth certificate to confirm the connection or do you think that the evidence that you have provided is sufficient to stand scrutiny.
Also big thanks to DaveHam9 & p.risboy

 

[emeltee]

If you want absolute confirmation then send for a certificate. If you feel happy with what info you have at the moment then save your money. The choice is yours!

Just out of interest this is a good site for Lancashire research - not perfect but then what is.

www.lan-opc.org.uk