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gamekeeper?

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#1
Hi everyone! I wonder if any one has any suggestions, my grandfather Charles Taylor, it was said was a gamekeeper for an estate outside Chester. He was born 1871 Kinnerton, Chester so I suppose it would have been when he was about 30 plus? making it around 1900. The estate was owned by the Salt family? He had all the equipment of a gamekeeper including a shotgun which was engraved as a present to him from the estate/family for service. But I can`t find any records of the estate, family in the area, or of him being a gamekeeper at all. All the documentation points to him as a farmer! It keeps nagging at me to try and prove it one way or the other. Does anyone know if there are any records for occupation as a gamekeeper, or is it something that is unlisted. I seem to recollect the name of Salt in connection with a factory or mill in the Manchester area if so they may well have had land in the Chester Cheshire district. Well! if anyone has any suggestions of a direction to go I would love to hear them. Thanks phil.
 

gibbo

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#2
Hi Phil,

Just a thought and if you havent already maybe someone who has access to the 1901 census might be able to find him and see what occupation is noted on that.

Good luck
 

Robesur

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#3
It is quite possible that he was a tenant farmer of a few acres on an estate and also carried gamekeeping duties for the owner over all of the estate, probably to help pay the rent. On a census he could put either Farmer or Gamekeeper down as his occupation but as a 'Farmer' would indicate that he was self employed and 'Gamekeeper' would be an employee, then he would probably opt for a farmer, to sound better.
 

Robesur

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#4
To answer you actual question, I very much doubt if there are any central records for Gamekeepers. There may be an organisation today, which they could join, particularly in these days but in the 19th century it was an occupation undertaken by simple country folk who had a close interest in the countryside and wildlife. It would be one small step up from a simple Agricultural Labourer. Today it is much more specialised.

You have not given much information about your Charles Taylor to enable him to be identified. You say he was born in Kinnerton, Cheshire in 1871. The only parish that I can find is Kinderton, although I cannot see any Charles Taylor giving that as his place of birth. Kinderton is in the Northwich registration district and there is a birth of a Charles Taylor registered in that district in June 1872, volume 8a, Page 243, could this be his birth?

In 1901 there is a 29 year old Charles Taylor living at Sandymere, Delamere, Cheshire with a wife Elizabeth 30 and daughters Eleanor 8, Ethel 7, Phoebe 5, Jessie 2. Charles is said to be born in Hartford, Cheshire, which is in the Northwich district and his occupation is a Domestic Groom. A groom probably works for an Estate Owner and a neighbour is an Estate Manager. Is it possible that Charles changed from being a groom to become a farmer and Gamekeeper after 1901?

In 1891 a 19 year old Charles Taylor, Groom was living with his 47 year old parents James and Ann in Hartford. James was also a Groom. Also with them were two brothers and two sisters.
 
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#6
Thank you everyone for replying. On checking the information my grandfather Charles Taylor was born in 1871 in Shordley Flintshire Wales, even though he lived all his life in the village of Kinnerton. On the 1891 Wales census are listed, his father Samuel Taylor born 1830 age 61 occupation farmer living at sandy lane, his mother Ann Taylor nee Beddowe age 58 born 1833, Charles of course age 20 born 1871, and his brother Ellis age 18 born 1833. On the 1901 Wales census Charles is now married (in 1897 in Hope, Flintshire) to Sarah Taylor nee Berry born 1866. He now has a son George age 2, a son Samuel age 3 months, and his brother George a widower age 38 is also living with them, they are living at a farm called "Moorside" which is about 1 mile from his fathers farm. Both Charles and his brother are listed as labourers. Charles and Sarah go on to have a daughter Mary Eveline in 1903 and another son Charles (my father ) in 1908. I have had a look at the listing on the 1911 census and although he is listed, I can`t see anything useful, (no subscription). As far as an estate for him to be gamekeeper on, the area is all farmland and the only estate within traveling distance, (about 8 miles), would belong to the Duke of Westminster, but I have no information to connect him with it. Sorry about the misinformation on his place of birth but it`s the same place just called something else, any way I know what I mean!! Well it`s back to the drawing board, so thank you for your replies. phil.
 
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#7
HI
I note Charles is a General Labourer on the latest census.
checking the returns immediately before his, the first is for New Farm Kinnerton, home of Samuel Handley. He has 5 servants, 2 Horsemen, 2 Dairy and 2 domestic, (1 is a neice)
The next is Lower House Kinnerton, home of Charles Roscoe, a Wagonner on farm. He has a wife 2 children and a grandson. ALSO living with them are 3 Taylors - Mary 42, Elsie 19 and Frederick 1
The next is Lancaster House, Kinnerton, the home of Percy John Steens Hughes. He is a farmer, his son 20, a golf club maker, no mention of an estate.

dave
 
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#8
Hi Dave!
I thank you for your reply to my post, I take it you found the information on the 1911 Wales census. I have now had a look at the Wales census 1911 and worked out how to access it. I have found the records you mentioned, I have no record of the 3 Taylors staying with the Roscoes I assume that Mary is friends with the wife Mary Ann Roscoe since they are both born in Worthenbury, Flintshire, and are of a similar age. I have made a note of them for future reference. Thank you for your response and valued assistance. phil.
 
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