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George Groom Suffolk

Foxyloxy

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#1
I need some help, in looking at the information I already have, fresh eyes and ideas and help via records anyone holds for Suffolk

I am looking for George Groom baptism/parents/siblings.

Born c1802
1827 George married Amelia (Emily) Kemp from Dickleborough Norfolk in St Margarets Tivetshall Norfolk witnesses Charlotte Garland( not a Kemp, nor a Groom as far as I can find out) & John Groom( could be an older brother to George bap 1795 Thrandeston)
1841 census living in Norfolk it states not born in County
1851 census it states Thandeston Suffolk aged 49 yrs
1861 Thandeston Suffolk
1871 Thandeston Suffolk
1881 Eye Suffolk aged 80 yrs

In Thrandeston Robert Groom and Elizabeth Barnard were living and baptising their children including a George bap in 1799, however he was buried in 1800

In Eye the only George Groom I can find was born in 1777 parents George Groom and Elizabeth, which is too early


Help:D
 

benny1982

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#2
Hi Foxyloxy

Does the 1800 George Groom burial say "son of" or "infant, as I did think it may be a different George Groom, perhaps an older sibling who died or another relative.

I take it you have checked post 1800 for Thrandeston to see if another George Groom was baptised? Might be a good idea to check surrounding parishes for a baptism.

Ben
 

benny1982

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A George Groom was baptised in Felsham, Suffolk in 1800 son of Robert groom and Sarah nee Cutting. Felsham is about 12 miles from Eye. Might be worth a try. Maybe he was born in Felsham but grew up in the Eye and Thrandeston area and thought he was born there.
 

Foxyloxy

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Thanks Ben

Yes, George Groom, son of Robert and Elizabeth Groom bap 1799-bur 1800 Thrandeston. They had children bap 1794-1814 and until the 'George ' burial I thought it was 'my' George born a couple of years before I thought!
If it makes sense the family 'feels' right...but!

Just been looking and..........

George Groom married 27 Dec 1824 —Felsham, Suffolk, England
spouse: Sarah Haddock
wrong spouse

George groom birth:1801
burial: 12 Aug 1827 —Parish Of Felsham St. Peter, Co. Of Suffolk, England
residence: Felsham
died and my George married in 1827

George Groom bap 1 Jul 1798 Parish of Wortham Jervis & Evered, Co. of Suffolk, England
father's name: Francis Groom
mother's name: Charlotte Wells Groom
? but born to early unless he lied on census

George Groom & Fanny West are having children baptied in 1830 Wortham, Suffolk
wrong spouse

George Groom b 1801 in 1841 census district Barham, Suffolk, England ... married Lydia already know where he is in 1841 so not this one
George Groom b 1801 in 1841 census district Claydon, Suffolk ( parents John Groom & Frances)already know where he is in 1841 so not this one

Does any of that make any sense or am I still missing something ( apart from knowing where 'my' George is):confused:

Foxy
 

Foxyloxy

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Hi leefer

Thank you for finding the website.

I can't find any connection:'(, however the Robert Groom on there that is c1754 doesn't seem to have a birth place written, 'my' Robert Groom( George's likely potential father) was born about 20 years later, however I am told there are Grooms in the Thrandeston parish from at least 1723, at least two families headed by Thomas and Enoch, so really need to find more details of those.

Robert seemed to be a reacurring name used, so maybe a brother to Thomas so I will make contact with the webmaster of the site and see.....

It is never very easy to find records and make the right connections at this time in history with so few records available, ancestors really need to be rich or rogues and it seems these Groom ancestors of mine where just hard working normal people, so I may need to do some more branch research....and keep on looking.

It is possible they didn't have my George baptised, however unlikely when they had their other children baptised

Foxy
 

benny1982

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#7
I have Suffolk ancestors as well.

Also I wouldn't worry about the birth year being a bit out as ages didn't matter as much in those days as they do today. Wortham is quite near to Eye but if a George Groom was having children in Wortham in the 1830s then that throws things off balance a bit.
 
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I would favour Robert and Elizabeth had another son in 1802 and named him after the first George. I have a similar birth in my paternal tree, and he was not registered/baptised either even though 4 other children were. In my case though, there is only one Lambert family in a little village so I am pretty sure he was my family.
The other possibility is he may have adopted
dave
 

leefer

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#9
Hi leefer

Thank you for finding the website.

I can't find any connection:'(, however the Robert Groom on there that is c1754 doesn't seem to have a birth place written, 'my' Robert Groom( George's likely potential father) was born about 20 years later, however I am told there are Grooms in the Thrandeston parish from at least 1723, at least two families headed by Thomas and Enoch, so really need to find more details of those.

Robert seemed to be a reacurring name used, so maybe a brother to Thomas so I will make contact with the webmaster of the site and see.....

It is never very easy to find records and make the right connections at this time in history with so few records available, ancestors really need to be rich or rogues and it seems these Groom ancestors of mine where just hard working normal people, so I may need to do some more branch research....and keep on looking.

It is possible they didn't have my George baptised, however unlikely when they had their other children baptised

Foxy
Oh well,hope you get a lead soon.
 

benny1982

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You'd still need to try and find a baptism for a George Groom to Robert c1802 to see if they did have another George. Groom seems to be quite a regular name in Suffolk.
 

Foxyloxy

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You'd still need to try and find a baptism for a George Groom to Robert c1802 to see if they did have another George. Groom seems to be quite a regular name in Suffolk.
I think you are right I have found several Groom families in different parts of Suffolk ( and Norfolk) and it is feasible they are extended family including some who went to London, as having done some basic research on many of these they seem to have some connection back to Thrandeston. I need someone who has access to Thrandeston registers and/or visits the records office and would do a look up of the early ones for me as when I looked it was years ago and I didn't have some of the information I now have

I would favour Robert and Elizabeth had another son in 1802 and named him after the first George. I have a similar birth in my paternal tree, and he was not registered/baptised either even though 4 other children were. In my case though, there is only one Lambert family in a little village so I am pretty sure he was my family.
The other possibility is he may have adopted
dave
Yes. Robert & Elizabeth having George in 1802 after the death of the earlier George makes sense to me to they were the only couple having children this age at that time( but is tha enough to trust its correct :confused:), it seemed to be the 'norm' then when a child died to name the next one the same and I have many like this but have always found a baptism for them. I suppose the Parish Day book if it still exists is a likely source in case it was just forgotten and not written up in the parish register. I didn't think about adoption, which was not 'formal' then so there are not likely to be reocrds for that

Foxy

What a strange bunch we are only a Genealogist regards a step backwards as progress:eek:
 

Foxyloxy

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#12
I have Suffolk ancestors as well.

Also I wouldn't worry about the birth year being a bit out as ages didn't matter as much in those days as they do today. Wortham is quite near to Eye but if a George Groom was having children in Wortham in the 1830s then that throws things off balance a bit.
These are extended family as far as I can tell with the basic research I have done and go back to Thrandeston...then onto London.

I don't for the life of me know where I got Georges fathers name from ( I normally cite records but this I haven't) and if it is such as IGI which is unlikely with me then I put IGI...and I have Robert written in my note book

Thought:confused: I have witness names from George/Amelia's marriage, but in 1827 the father is not named or were they... could that be where I got it from:confused:
 

benny1982

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#13
Fathers names will not be mentioned on marriage records until July 1837. From 1754 to June 1837 marriage records listed the groom, bride, parish, date, by banns or license, often status, signatures of the couple and the witnesses and whom conducted the service.

As of 1 July 1837 marriages had to be performed in front of a registrar and they give date, names of bride and groom, status, age (normally they put just full age which was 21 or over), occupation, fathers name and occupation, whether by banns or license and by whom performed, and the signatures of the couple and the two witnesses.
 

Foxyloxy

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That is what I thought...I am doubting myself...so I have no idea where I got the Robert as his father from..........it would have been from a record of some type as it is in my note book, but when you look back the notes that seemed sensible and clear at the time are not so sensible and clear years later:(

Foxy
 

leefer

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Thrandeston was the where the Grey family lived and owned for centuries,the most famous being Lady Jane Grey.

Hope you get a result Foxyloxy....seems to be a lot of Grooms,but no bridesmaid at the moment:biggrin::biggrin:
 

Foxyloxy

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Thrandeston was the where the Grey family lived and owned for centuries,the most famous being Lady Jane Grey.

Hope you get a result Foxyloxy....seems to be a lot of Grooms,but no bridesmaid at the moment:biggrin::biggrin:
Yes 'the nine day queen' so I saw while doing some research, Henry Grey, 1st Duke of Suffolk was her father and Bradgate Park in Leicestershire which was were she was said to be born is where I used to ride my hunter in my youth, which the majority of the parkland/house still remain, now as a public park, unlike the other place I rode, the Beaumont estate...which now I find is exactly that a huge housing estate with the link road dual carriageway from the M1 to the A46...so all gone.

The Grooms are interesting, but I need to get more details from the PRs on them before I can go any further. I am hoping the two people I have emailed will get back to me, one has Thrandeston fiche and the other is researching the same Thrandeston Groom's.... but I may just stay 'local' and research the 'Kemps'...and see what I can find out about them...which may be easier if it turns out 'my' Kemps are from the noble Kempe's from Suffolk...who am I kidding ....'easier':2fun:

Just off to lay in a darkened room:eek: ... thenn the search goes on

Isn't genealogy fun? The answer to one problem leads to two more! Foxy
 

Foxyloxy

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Thought the lie down in a darkened room would work wonders...thought i would share the latest 'find'...I am now on-route along the 'branches':D so 'potentially' George's brother

Enoch Groom's obituary from a Cassville US newspaper(1896):

"Enoch, son of Robert and Elizabeth Groom, was born March 13th, 1810, baptised April 8th, 1810, as shown by the register of the parish Frandiston, County of Suffolk, England. His father died leaving his mother a widow with a large family for which to provide. She had only the help of the children who were old enough to do light work, such as tending sheep. He never went to school, but went to service very young for small wages. At the age of 25 years, by industry and economy he had saved enough money to bring himself, wife and two children to this country. He left England in a sailing vessel June, 1836. He stopped first at Marshall, Mich., for three weeks where he became acquainted with Joseph Bertram, who then owned the farm known as the Bertram farm. He came from Marshall, Michigan, to Cassville with an ox team furnished by Joseph Bertram. He came over the ground when Chicago now stands which was then a marsh. The team and wagon often sank in the mire so that some days the distance made was so short that he went back to the last night's camping ground to get coals to start a fire with which to get supper. Sometimes he waded through water up to his waist whilst driving the team. He arrived at Cassville Oct 1836. He first built a log house on Mill branch; from there he moved into a log house on the Bertram farm where he lived more than a year. Then he lived in a room in the Denniston house until 1839. He then moved on the Denniston farm, in the McCartney neighborhood where he lived till the fall of 1862, when he moved into the house he had just finished on his own farm. He went to Milwaukee in 1842 (?), with a horse team, for his brother William; at the same time he brought William Jordan. He died Nov. 16th, 1896, at his home where lived thirty-four years. The children of his first family were Mary Ann, Elizabeth, Wm. M., Ellen M., Geo. H., Alfred, Jane, Frederick, Oris, Albert L., Elizabeth C., Horace, Carrie M. Four of these are dead. The children of his second family were Ellen H., Enoch M., Mary A., Frances. The last named is dead. His third wife survives him."

Foxy
 

benny1982

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That is amazing. I hope to find such info on my great, great, great grandad in America if an obituary lists as much info as that. Yes Enoch could have been a brother of George.
 

benny1982

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Good luck Foxy. Never been to Thrandeston but been to Eye nearby. I wonder if the person who named it Eye was an optician? :D:D:D
 
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