George William Graham c 1901

[Col. Gibbon]

Hello everyone.

Is there an entry for George William Graham, aged 16? He was living in 18, Ship Court, Westminster London, in 1901 aged 6.

Many thanks for any help.

 

[davelambert271]

have you any other info to help identify him in 1901. Ship court does not come up on a search. how do you know his address. can you give ref numbers for 1901 census please

dave

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hello Dave.

To Quote you.

I think this is Georges family
1891

GRAHAM, William G Head Married M 35 1856 Shoe Black Westminster, London
GRAHAM, Priscilla Wife Married F 32 1859 Westminster, London
GRAHAM, William Son Single M 7 1884 Westminster, London
GRAHAM, George Son Single M 6 1885 Westminster, London
GRAHAM, Caroline Daughter Single F 4 1887 Westminster, London
GRAHAM, Hannah Daughter Single F 2 1889 Westminster, London
GRAHAM, Henry Son Single M 0 (8M) 1891 Westminster, London


Piece: 80 Folio: 57 Page: 18

Registration District: St George Hanover Square

Address: 18, Ship Court, Westminster London

I tried to find the address, but it's not shown in any form, on any old street maps,

The info you found does fit with what I already knew, unless there is a better fit with another family. I've updater George on Ancestry.co.uk with what I have currently.

 

[davelambert271]

I see so many posts, I'd forgotten mine - You say he was 6 in 1901, should be 1891


1901 England Census

Civil Parish: St Margaret
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 33 Lewisham street


Caroline Graham 62 Lambeth widow
George Graham 17 Westminster Nephew printers lab (record trans as 19)
Caroline Graham 14 Westminster niece

ship court is off Horseferry Road

 

[davelambert271]

George enlisted 6 yrs on 30/12/1903 aged 18yrs 9mths into 5 Msx reg no 3895. He was living 33 Lewisham St Battersea. His father Thomas George of 375 Battersea Park Road, Battersea Sy (which kind of questions my post of William G)

apart from some personal details there's no other useful info

First name(s): George William

Last name: GRAHAM

Calculated year of birth: 1885

Parish of birth: Westminster, London. Middlesex

Age at attestation: 18 years 9 months

Attestation date: 30 December 1903

Attestation corps: 5TH MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

Attestation soldier number: 239

Discharge rank:

Discharge corps: Duke Of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment) - 57th & 77th Foot

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hello Dave.

That's great info. Based on your friends info, George stayed in because of him being found still serving in 1911 in India.

I've found the births of all the brothers and sisters, mentioned in the 1891 census.

Who Is this the Caroline aged 62 in 1901? What happened to the rest of the family?

Birth March 1858
Graham William George
Westminster
1a 247

Births Mar 1882
Graham William
St. Geo. H. Sq.
1a 499

Births Mar 1887
GRAHAM Caroline Rose
St. Geo. H. Sq.
1a 494

Births Jun 1889
Graham Hannah
St. Geo. H. Sq
1a 440

Births Sep 1890
Graham Henry Walter
St. Geo. H. Sq.
1a 457

Please could you look at the birth records for an atual DOB?

 

[Col. Gibbon]

George enlisted 6 yrs on 30/12/1903 aged 18yrs 9mths into 5 Msx reg no 3895. He was living 33 Lewisham St Battersea. His father Thomas George of 375 Battersea Park Road, Battersea Sy (which kind of questions my post of William G)

apart from some personal details there's no other useful info

First name(s): George William

Last name: GRAHAM

Calculated year of birth: 1885

Parish of birth: Westminster, London. Middlesex

Age at attestation: 18 years 9 months

Attestation date: 30 December 1903

Attestation corps: 5TH MIDDLESEX REGIMENT

Attestation soldier number: 239

Discharge rank:

Discharge corps: Duke Of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment) - 57th & 77th Foot

Hello Dave.

I don't think this Graham fits, unless everything else is wrong. I have his service number as 6950 4th Bataillion, Middlesex Regiment. Please have a look at your friends post on this thread, and see what you think.

http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=25070

 

[ptjw7]

Are you sure they always kept the same number.
I will have to check my data as I think my grandfather had 2 numbers when he was in the Middlesex regiment and then went the Royal Fusiliers( London Regiment)

peter

Found it.
Name: Joseph WALTON


Rank: PRIVATE
Initials: J
Birthplace: Hoxton
Residence: Enfield
Enlisted: Ponders End
Regiment, Corps etc.: Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment)
Battalion etc.: 11th Battalion.

Formed at Hounslow 6.9.14-K2-to Colchester in 54th Bde.
18th Div. May 1915 Salisbury Plain. July 1915 to France.
11.11.18 54th Bde. 18th Div. France; near Le Cateau.

Number: 7992
Date died: 7 August 1918
How died: Died of wounds
Theatre of war: France & Flanders
Supplementary Notes: FORMERLY 3890, MIDDX. REGT.

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Peter.

Could the reason be your grandfather changed regiments? My grandfather stayed in the same regiment, so why would he change numbers?

I've looked at this site:

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/middlesex-regiment-1st-2nd-3rd-4th.html

And his list of service numbers shows:

9590 joined on 15th January 1904
10063 joined on 16th February 1905

So, as my grandfather was service number 9650, he must have joined between 1904/5, and kept that number until 1919, when he finished his millitary service.

On the Princess Mary Tin list, 9650 Private G W Graham of 11 Harnage Road, Brentford, was issued a 1914 Christmas Tin, in 1919.

John

 

[davelambert271]

there is something which does not tie up, but I cannot put my finger on it.

George W Graham 1885 joined the army in 1903. According to his signing up papers he was living at 33 Lewisham Road. On 1901 census aged 17 he is living at that address with his sister Caroline 14 and aunt Caroline 62 (ref 94-114-11)
Tracing aunt Caroline back in 1861 we have Esther Graham 52 mother and children Hannah 27, George 21 house painter, his wife Caroline 24 and their children William 3 and Rose 5m (ref 52-79-27)
1871 George 31, Caroline 32, William 13, Caroline 8 and Rose Esther 9m
1891 we have William and family at 18 Ship Court, earlier post.
I think this proves that George 1885 through his father William 1856 who was son of Caroline 1839, was the George who joined the army.
Now the problem, George's father according to the records was a Thomas George Graham of 375 Battersea Park Road and he had a brother Alan/Olan or something like that.

there is another army number for George, 239/3895 but this is not the same as you posted. The records are sparse and by no means complete and I believe the soldiers number changes with each reg he is posted to.

Going back to the census return of 1891 of William at 18 Ship court. do you know this is your family? If not what is the last item that you are sure is correct

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hello Dave.

I've been trying to get things to fit.

I've found out the reg number did change and my number of 6950 only is relevant for WWI. So, the numbers you and ptjw7 found, might well be right, as they all relate to different brigades of the Middlesex Regiment.

As you say though the different father's name is an issue.

The question is also, what happened to the rest of the Graham family from Westminter? It seems strange that only a sister and his aunt are living together. What drove them apart?

I need to spend a bit of time and add your new findings and see how they fit what I have already.

Many thanks.

John