Geroge William Graham c 1911

[Col. Gibbon]

I have been updating my families records, but something is wrong with my grandfathers returns.

I have a copy of my father's birth certificate dated 21st October 1913. On it my granfather is listed as:

Father
Geroge William Graham
Builders Labourer
13 Authur Street Battersea

Mother
Mary Ann Graham [Sadler]

I've matched up all of the Sadler/Mumford family, but the posted information on the Graham family just does not seem correct.

Can anyony have a look to see if there is any better fit for my Grandfather in 1911?

 

[horse]

No luck in 1911 yet, but there is a possible connection with Arthur St.

It's not unusual for people to live in the same street for a number of years, but at different numbers, perhaps as families grew they needed larger places

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Mary Ann Graham
Year: 1926
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth
Street Address: 4a Arthur
[The image says Floss St. the next street is Gamlem St, it could be in between. There is also a George William Graham at the same address]

 

[horse]

In 1928 the address is described as Floss St. They are both still there.

Mary Ann Graham
Year: 1928
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth
Street Address: 4a FLOSS STREET

Geoff

 

[horse]

1921...

Can't see them before this, if he was discharged from the army in 1919 this would fit, George W is also there.

Mary Ann Graham
Year: 1921
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth
Street Address: 4a IOii
[Address is Floss St or Gamlen Rd]

Geoff

 

[horse]

Ah! So the E/R's are correct...

This is the absent voter's list for 1918...

Name: George William Graham
Year: 1918
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Wandsworth
Street Address: 4a S3
[Image confirms his Regiment & No. Add: 4a Floss Street]

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hello Horse.

I'm still a bit confused, the address 4a Authur Street, is also 4a Floss St or Gamlen Road?

The thing with the 1913 address it shows him as a labourer, not in the army, and he's certainly not going to be a male nurse, in 1914, so that marraige cert must be wrong too.

The only other paperwork I have about him shows him as a retired GWR Docker, Brentford Docks, Dec 1951. Death cert 7th Aug 1952.

John

 

[horse]

I must say, the Arthur St., Gamlem St. and Floss St. does confuse the issue. Having said that, Floss St., does appear to be the pivot and it is findable on google maps. There may have been small terraced streets off Floss St. that may no longer exist. There are going to be errors and mis-transcriptions, it is not uncommon, however, the main info appears to be correct.

With any certificate, the info is only as good as the informant's knowledge (or what they say).

With reference to GWR, the only entry I could see was in 1936 (as I recall) that I posted in another thread.

I can only suggest to keep plugging away. I have at least 2 like this that I have been researching for nearly 15 years. On a brighter note I put another query on this site some weeks ago and got a breakthrough. So there is still hope.

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

OK Geoff.

I'll keep at it. It's a bit like putting Humpty Dumpty back together!

Could you look at Wandsworth 5d 1099? This should be the Death Cert of my Gran.

And George W Graham aged 67, Chelsea 5c 223.
I'm not sure if this is him, but I can't find a better match on FreeBDM. I had the date from Putney Vale Cemetery, but maybe it's wrong too.

John

 

[horse]

This is the Death Reg. for Mary Ann, using that info..

Mary A Graham
Birth Date: abt 1889
Date of Regi: Mar 1947
Ag: 58
RD: Wandsworth
County: Greater London
V 5d
P 1099

Something not right, have you got Mary Ann's birth details?

 

[horse]

And George W Graham aged 67, Chelsea 5c 223.
I'm not sure if this is him, but I can't find a better match on FreeBDM. I had the date from Putney Vale Cemetery, but maybe it's wrong too.

John

This quite possibly him. There is a George W Graham in St Stephen's Hospital, Chelsea in 1951... I presume they are patients and not staff quarters

George W Graham
Year: 1951
County or Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Ward or Division/Constituency: Chelsea
[Image says, St Stephen's Hospital]

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff

This is eveything I know about her.

Birth
c Mar 1891
Brentford, Middlesex, England
Brentford 3a 80

Census 1891
4 Watsons Court, Brentford, London
Piece: RG12/1031 Place: Brentford -Middlesex Enumeration District: 31 Civil Parish: Ealing Ecclesiastical Parish: St Paul Folio: 145 Page: 27 Schedule: 187

Employment
1911
Age: 20
72 Waverdon Avenue, Chiswick.
General Domestic Servant

Marriage to George William Graham Mr
5 Jan 1913
Age: 21
St Saviours, Battersea
1d 759

Address
5 Jan 1913
Age: 21
7 Longhedge St, Battersea.
Living with Hisband Georger Graham

Death
c 14 Jan 1947
Age: 55
Wandsworth 5d 1099

Burial
20 Jan 1947
Putney Vale Cenetery
Grave number 570 Block N

 

[horse]

This is interesting...

George W Graham
Year: 1949
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Putney and Streatham
Street Address: 103 Dormay Street
[Image says 103 Armoury Way not Dormay St. There is also a George W B J Graham and a Mary E Graham]

 

[horse]

This quite possibly him. There is a George W Graham in St Stephen's Hospital, Chelsea in 1951... I presume they are patients and not staff quarters

George W Graham
Year: 1951
County or Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Ward or Division/Constituency: Chelsea
[Image says, St Stephen's Hospital]

Geoff

This may have to go on the back burner for 2 reasons, 1. There is another G W Graham in the area and 2. He is also listed in Putney in 1951 (Armoury Way). Having said that, I'm not sure how often the register is updated, so it still could be your man in hospital.

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff.

That's fine, as it's the address I was born at in 1955, so we can say that is correct.

 

[horse]

Ok, I'll have a look at Mary Ann.. need to check some some records off-line...

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

This is interesting...

George W Graham
Year: 1949
County or Borough: Wandsworth
Ward or Division/Constituency: Putney and Streatham
Street Address: 103 Dormay Street
[Image says 103 Armoury Way not Dormay St. There is also a George W B J Graham and a Mary E Graham]

That fits with the Death record on my list, and explains why he died in Chelsea and not Wandsworth.

Mary was one of the family born 1919, and I think she was a spinster all her life.

Irene is the interesting one, born in 1917, while grandad was a possible POW!

 

[horse]

This is the Death Reg. for Mary Ann, using that info..

Mary A Graham
Birth Date: abt 1889
Date of Regi: Mar 1947
Ag: 58
RD: Wandsworth
County: Greater London
V 5d
P 1099

Something not right, have you got Mary Ann's birth details?

The reason I felt something was not right, because there is another Mary Ann A Sadler b. Q1 1887 Brentford, 3a, 129. Also following her mother's mar. to John J Mumford in 1892 she was known as Mary Ann Mumford in 1901, then reverted back to Sadler in 1911 and her mar, 1913. Her birth and death just about fit with dates.

George W definitely gives his occ. as Male Nurse at his mar. He doesn't indicate that he is in the army (? would be army med. core). Witnesses: Stepfather and Mother.

If you haven't seen the mar. record this is it below. Note the crossing out of her father.

Still nothing decisive on GW

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff.

The Sadler's get a bit complicated as your right, there are two Sadler ladies.
Mary Ann Saler/Mumford, and her daughter, Mary Ann Sadler/Graham, my granparents.

I'm still a bit surprized you could go from Labourer in 1913, to Male Nurse in 1914. I know the service number [9650] is correct.

I'd love to see the birth cert's of:

Irene Graham, 1917, Wandsworth 1d 1106

Mary Graham, 1919, Wandsworth 1d 1142

Elizabeth A E Graham, 1924, Wandsworth 1d 1185

John

 

[horse]

Hi Geoff.

The Sadler's get a bit complicated as your right, there are two Sadler ladies.
Mary Ann Saler/Mumford, and her daughter, Mary Ann Sadler/Graham, my granparents.

I'm still a bit surprized you could go from Labourer in 1913, to Male Nurse in 1914. I know the service number [9650] is correct.

I'd love to see the birth cert's of:

Irene Graham, 1917, Wandsworth 1d 1106

Mary Graham, 1919, Wandsworth 1d 1142

Elizabeth A E Graham, 1924, Wandsworth 1d 1185

John

Difficult to know how he was a Male Nurse when he married. Maybe he was an orderly at one of the local hospitals and called himself a nurse on the cert.

Unfortunately I only have access to London marriages up to about 1914.

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hello Geoff.

Many thanks for all your help.

Is there any chance you could look at my grandfather's family? So far he's in Westminster, in 1885 St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 472 and for the Census
Census in 1891 he's Age: 6 and living at 18, Ship Court, Westminster London.

The thing I don't get is his service number is from 1904/5 when he was 19, and then there is a different number for him in India.

It all seems a bit wrong, but then what do I know?

John