Geroge William Graham c 1911

[horse]

I agree, something is not right... Something has happened between 1891 - 1901.

Is this George's mother (age abt. 4y out)?

Deaths Q4 1893
Graham Priscilla
Age 38
Wandsworth
1d 422

If it isn't there is this

Alice Graham
Record Type: Birth
Estimated Birth Date: 22 Apr 1896
Father: William Graham
Mother: Priscilla Graham
Parish or Poor Law Union: Westminster
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers
[Image says, Bap. in the Buckingham Palace Road Workhouse]

I'm not sure what that means for that family, whether or not they are inmates.

I also found this, not sure yet if it is related to yours, George's age 3y out, but Caroline's correct...

1901
Civil Parish: St Margaret
County: London
Caroline Graham 62 [wid. b. Lambeth. Charwoman]
George Graham 19 [Nephew. b. Westminster. Some sort of Labourer]
Caroline Graham 14 [Niece. b. Westminster]
[Address looks like 33 Lewesham St.]

Geoff

 

[horse]

One thing to keep in mind, there is a William D Graham and Priscilla around at the same time.

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff.

At first I thought the Westminster connection was right, but if you read this thread:

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/middlesex-regiment-1st-2nd-3rd-4th.html

Check out the number list, and the blog lower down the page, where I asked about my granfather.

If I can find out what he was doing at the time of Irene's Birth, that might confirm his army service.

John

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Is this him?

Births Jun 1885
Graham George William St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 472

 

[horse]

Is this him?

Births Jun 1885
Graham George William St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 472

I'm fairly sure it is... but I can't find a bap.

 

[horse]

Hi Geoff.

At first I thought the Westminster connection was right, but if you read this thread:

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/middlesex-regiment-1st-2nd-3rd-4th.html

Check out the number list, and the blog lower down the page, where I asked about my granfather.

If I can find out what he was doing at the time of Irene's Birth, that might confirm his army service.

John

Hi John

Yeah, have seen that, but it doesn't help, sadly

I can still only find this, have you seen the image? It has an entry date of 14/08/14...

British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
Name: George W Graham
Regiment or Corps: 4th Middlesex Regiment
Regimental Number: 49650

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff.

I found this on the Wikipedia

Prior to 1920 each regiment issued their own service numbers which were unique only within that regiment, so the same number could be issued many times in different regiments. When a serviceman moved, he would be given a new service number by his new regiment. Commissioned officers did not have service numbers until 1920.

This is his 1914/18 medal card, which shows his service number as 49650, but on other records it's shown as 9650.

I could not find a link to 49650, but 9650 is mentioned several times, as you have found too, so I guess this is correct. Maybe the 4 is simply added to all 4th battaion numbers?

I'll have to look at the other Census record of India.

John

 

[horse]

I also found this, not sure yet if it is related to yours, George's age 3y out, but Caroline's correct...

1901
Civil Parish: St Margaret
County: London
Caroline Graham 62 [wid. b. Lambeth. Charwoman]
George Graham 19 [Nephew. b. Westminster. Some sort of Labourer]
Caroline Graham 14 [Niece. b. Westminster]
[Address looks like 33 Lewesham St.]

Geoff

Hi John

Looking to confirm or eliminate the above...

Caroline is still at the same address in 1903, I can't see a George or Caroline Jr., but I think they have to be 21y to be included in the E/R

Caroline Graham
Year: 1903
County or Borough: Westminster
Ward or Division/Constituency: City of Westminster
Street Address: 33 Lewisham street
[The following are are also at the same address: Johanna Kendrick, Mary Richardson]

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hello Geoff.

I've been putting together the tree, and the 1911 census find of George being in India does not fit. The birth date and place don't fit, and his age is out too.

I'm firming up on his life in Westminster, but it would be good to find him in the 1911 census, somewhere nearby.

We know he's in 13 Arthur Street Battersea, with Mary, in 1913, and he must have been in the area for a while or else how did he meet Mary?

I went back to the medal records, and there are several cards now listed. Is there any chance you could take a look at them? I'm sure 46950 is him, but I did find the record a long time ago, so nothing is certain.

John

 

[horse]

Hi John

There are so many G Graham's receiving medals for that period it would be nearly impossible to go through them all. The lack of info with each entry is also hampering a proper search.

Dave makes an interesting summary in post #10 of this thread > http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=25074

George cites his father as William G.. in mar. details..

That address, 33 Lewisham Road looks to be a common factor and a link between his sister Caroline and his address at joining the army.

It may help if we try find the rest of the family from the 1891 census

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff,

I work on FBDM site only, and I found 1 possible births for George in Westmister.:
Births Mar 1858
Graham William George Westminster 1a 247

And only two marriages, one of which must be my George:
Marriages Mar 1873
Graham William St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 431
Marriages Dec 1884
Graham William St Geo H Sq 1a 715

I've been thinking about the Poor House too, and it might explain why the family seems to break up. A Shoe Black's earnings surely would not support a large family.

John

 

[horse]

I can't see a Priscilla with either of those marriages... In fact I can't see a possible marriage, unless she used another forename

I had a look for Alice in case she could lead us to either of the parents, not much luck, but these are possibles for the back burner, neither particularly nice or helpful

1901
Civil Parish: Westgate on Sea
Town: Westgate on Sea
County: Kent
[Add: Canterbury Parade]

Alice Graham 5 [b. St Margaret Cenenster, London]
[This is a privately owned convalescence house]


1911
Civil Parish: Dartford
County: Kent
Street Address: Metropolitan Imbecile Asylum, Darenth Near Dartford
RD: Dartford
Piece: 3792; ED: 32-36

Alice Graham 15 Patient [b. Unknown. Occ: Ward helper]

Your comment about the 'Poor House' makes sense.

Geoff

 

[horse]

I'm including this for the back burner because it is in Herne Bay, just 5 miles or so from Westgate-on-Sea (where Alice was).

1901
The Lead Page says, St Anne's Home, Convalescent Home.
Civil Parish: Herne Bay
Town: Herne Bay
County: Kent

Hannah Graham 12 Inmate [b. N/K. Scholar]

Not convincing being so far from Westminster, interesting they are both in convalescent homes, but why not together?

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff.

I was hoping the Birth was right for George, as it was the only Westminster entry.

Like wise the only two marriages in the target area were those two, so I was hoping one would mention this mystery Percilla lady.

Other than titbits, I can't find much on the rest of his family. No marriages or deaths, unless they all scattered from Westminster after 1901.

Another idea for the move is the clearence of slums. I guess Ship Court might have looked like this in 1901, and it's possible that caused the break up of the family, ending in the Work House for some of them, Hospital, and fro George a move to his Aunt's.

Is there anything on this Nephew's pinting business? Is the older Caroline, was married to whom?

I'm goning to be busy all day today as it's my middle daughter's Birthday. She's a big 8, and expecting a party this afternoon!

John

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hello Geoff.

Could you post those 3 records that you have looked at? There might be something in them, which might fit in later.

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff.

Trying to find something after Henry Graham's Birth, which this should be.

Births Sep 1890
Graham Henry Walter St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 457.

But like the rest of that branch of the family, the seem to vanish! Henry should be George's younger brother.

This is all very strange.

 

[horse]

Hello Geoff.

Could you post those 3 records that you have looked at? There might be something in them, which might fit in later.

Hi John

Which 3 records?

 

[horse]

Hi Geoff.

Trying to find something after Henry Graham's Birth, which this should be.

Births Sep 1890
Graham Henry Walter St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 457.

But like the rest of that branch of the family, the seem to vanish! Henry should be George's younger brother.

This is all very strange.

I had a quick look at possible siblings the other night and nothing leaping out

Geoff

 

[Col. Gibbon]

Hi Geoff.

Can you please post the detail of these 3 records.

Births Mar 1858
Graham William George Westminster 1a 247

And only two marriages, one of which must be my George:
Marriages Mar 1873
Graham William St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 431
Marriages Dec 1884
Graham William St Geo H Sq 1a 715

Last night I found this one:
Births Sep 1890
Graham Henry Walter St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 457.

Can you post the detail of this record too? The mother and father should be the same as George.

Many thanks.

John

 

[horse]

This is the marriage in 1873

If you use the FreeBMD you can see this information by clicking the page number highlighted in blue 431 in this case. Let me know if you can't see this info and I'll send you the other one...

Marriages Q1 1873
COE Marion Frances
Graham William
KNAPP Augusta Emma G
Oram Ebenesar
Oram Ebenezer
Varney Nellie
St.Geo.H.Sq.
Vol 1a
Page 431

Geoff