Gold Ring with unknown Coat of Arms?

[Barton68]

Hi all,

back again, this time with a gold ring and a snuff dispencer, but an unknown family members, any ideas?

I was led to beleive that the snuffer dispencer was owned by the 3rd son of 6th Earl of Coventry?

Thank you again for any help.

http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1090&stc=1&d=1344692490

http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1091&stc=1&d=1344692765

 

[p.risboy]

The Earl of Coventry coat of Arms has very similar characteristics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Earl_of_Coventry_coa.png

A wild guess on the Seal, but possiibly Bavarian/German.

Steve.

 

[p.risboy]

But......there are a lot of Scottish Coats of Arms, with Boars heads.

 

[Barton68]

Thank you for your swift reply...

Looks like the snuff dispencer is something to with the Earl of Coventry

I'm trying to track down the hallmark on the ring, doesn't look English, I don't think? But could be Chester (Three wheatsheaves)?

http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1092&stc=1&d=1344696522

 

[p.risboy]

From what I have found, the date letter 'U', is 1994. The font used, plus the shape of the background of the stamp matches up here. http://www.theassayoffice.co.uk/date_letters.html

I don't believe there is an assay office in Chester, only London, Birmingham, Sheffield & Edinburgh.

But then I don't know much about gold.


Steve.

 

[duckweed]

There is definitely an Assay office in Sheffield, and Birmingham. There used to be one in Chester. I'm pretty sure there is one in Edinburgh.

Looks like Chester to me.
http://www.thebigworld.co.uk/rare_gold_and_silver_hallmarks.htm

which puts it before 1962. If it is same as silver the letter is 1745

http://www.925-1000.com/dlc_chester.html

Can't find dating for gold. So obviously not foreign especially as it is also 18 K
There are a huge number of families that have boars heads but I would definitely say snuff carrier was Earl of Coventry as it has cockerel at top
and the crescents which are on the coat of arms of the Earl of Coventry.

 

[Barton68]

Thank you for the clarification on the snuff dispencer, the stories were true :biggrin:

I wasn't sure if it was 1745 or 1920, but I would go with 1745.
Would there be a list of families with boars as part of their CoA, and then I could see any family named connections?

Thank you both again.

There is definitely an Assay office in Sheffield, and Birmingham. There used to be one in Chester. I'm pretty sure there is one in Edinburgh.

Looks like Chester to me.
http://www.thebigworld.co.uk/rare_gold_and_silver_hallmarks.htm

which puts it before 1962. If it is same as silver the letter is 1745

http://www.925-1000.com/dlc_chester.html

Can't find dating for gold. So obviously not foreign especially as it is also 18 K
There are a huge number of families that have boars heads but I would definitely say snuff carrier was Earl of Coventry as it has cockerel at top
and the crescents which are on the coat of arms of the Earl of Coventry.

 

[duckweed]

I've tried any sources I can find but none have 2 boars. Obviously the coat of arms was in heraldic terms fairly recent as the Earl of Coventry was remade in the 1697 which the snuff box would come from. So is harder to trace as it is after heraldic visitations I have access to.

Heraldic visitations are when the Royal College of Heralds visit a noble family and look at all the documents and establish they have the right to their coat of arms. There are books published for each county listing the families claims by family descent.

Burkes Peerage is the most obvious source but that costs money unless you have a friendly person who will go to their local English Library and look it up for you.

 

[Barton68]

Thank you for the information.

I actually have a copy of Burke's Peerage, but only the Irish Family version, but I may have to pay as I'm intrigued....

Best wishes.

I've tried any sources I can find but none have 2 boars. Obviously the coat of arms was in heraldic terms fairly recent as the Earl of Coventry was remade in the 1697 which the snuff box would come from. So is harder to trace as it is after heraldic visitations I have access to.

Heraldic visitations are when the Royal College of Heralds visit a noble family and look at all the documents and establish they have the right to their coat of arms. There are books published for each county listing the families claims by family descent.

Burkes Peerage is the most obvious source but that costs money unless you have a friendly person who will go to their local English Library and look it up for you.

 

[leefer]

Blimey Barton.....you related to Fagin in Oliver

Lovely stuff.

 

[spanglecat]

I had a look in my Dictionary of Heraldry but the only Boar that it mentions is the single Boar connected with Richard III.

What a puzzler!

 

[duckweed]

JOHN PONDE or POUND

Ponde
Hampnes, temp. Hen. VII.
Somerset, p.s. 16, pat. 30 Jan. 1511.
Second s. of Sir John Pound, of Drayton, Hampshire, by Elizabeth, dau.and coheiress of Sir Richard Holt, of Colrith, Hampshire, said to have beenHampnes and Rouge Croix temp. Hen. VII; latter is impossible; may perhapshave been the Hampnes who attended funeral of Henry VII and coronationof Henry VIII and was sent June 1510 to the King of France, though patentof Somerset does not so name him; 1513 employed to buy 'hacbusshes' andsent to King of Denmark; 1517 conducted a French envoy to Berwick; 1520at Field of Cloth of Gold; 18 June 1525 transferred to household of HenryFitzroy, Duke of Richmond and Somerset; thereafter ranked as extraordinary in College; d. between 1 November 1527 and 1 May 1528.
Sometimes said to have married a dau. of William Wriothesley, York,the 'sister Pounde' of the first Earl of Southampton's will, but identificationdoubtful.
Arms: Argent, a fess gules between 2 boar's heads sable in chief & a crossformy fitchy gules in base.
From: 'Somerset Herald', Survey of London Monograph 16: College of Arms, Queen Victoria Street (1963), pp. 152-166. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=11826JOHN PONDE or POUND

 

[Barton68]

Thank you both for your help.

Duckweed that is amazing! and that makes perfect sense as a relation in the family was a General Pond(e). I will try and find out more

A true genius, thank you again.

 

[duckweed]

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41947

This might give you some background. They must have changed the coat of arms at some point because the one given there is almost the same but has dragons heads. Possibly different branches of the same family?

 

[Barton68]

Bertha Beatrice Pond was my partners Great Grandmother. I did also notice an inscription dedicated to Henry VII I think?

Some very informative notes.

Thank you for your time.

 

[spanglecat]

To Duckweed

That is incredible, I know who to ask should I ever be lucky enough to find a coat of arms in my family Doubt it though, as they were all either in the woollen trade or in the south Wales valleys, still you never know!

 

[duckweed]

You never know. Some very wealthy people involved in the wool trade. Also quite a few families were wealthy in earlier times but not now and of course you might be a minor branch of a more important family.

 

[Barton68]

Inscription to Henry VIII (latin?):

http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1116&stc=1&d=1346845348

http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1117&stc=1&d=1346845348

http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1118&stc=1&d=1346845348

 

[spanglecat]

You never know. Some very wealthy people involved in the wool trade. Also quite a few families were wealthy in earlier times but not now and of course you might be a minor branch of a more important family.

You never know - however I think that the majority of them were workers and not owners (not that I am saying that the owners didn't work).

 

[ptjw7]

Had a quick look for the date letter and it appears to be 1920 although the page I found was for silver, I thik it should still hold for gold.

http://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilverhallmarksCHE.html

Couldnt find a makers mark listed for the maker though.
The marks seem to be in very good condition for its age!!
The Chester assay office closed in 1961.

peter
Just done a cut and paste of images and now think its 1745 date letter.