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Gt Grandma gives nothing away!

JMR

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#1
I wonder if someone could pour any light on my Gt Grandmother's background please?

She was born Mary Ann Austin (that's on her marriage certificate) in 1861 in Kirkstall. Her Mother was Hannah Austin on her birth certificate, which I have finally sourced. She was not listed on Free BMD or anywhere on Ancestry listings before her marriage to John Gaunt in 1881, so it's all guess work really.

I eventually found a listing for her on the Yorkshire BMD, so not sure why she wouldn't also be on free BMD (does anyone know the difference)? I think she was listed on the 1871 census as Mary Ann Moule as there was a marriage between a Hannah Austin and Luke Moule in 1869, but Hannah had died 18 months after her marriage meaning she was not listed on the 1871 census with Luke and Mary Ann Moule.

My Gt Grandmother's birth certificate when it arrived was very different from any others I have, in as much as it was typed and not a photocopy of the original handwritten one. It had her birth date, address and Mother's name and a line drawn through the spot for her father's name, indicating she was illegitimate and this matches with her marriage certificate, which had the column for her Father's name blanked out also. I was really disappointed that there was so little information given on the certificate. Would anyone know why this certificate was typed and not a copy of the handwritten one please? Is there any further follow up I can do?

In the 1861 census, before Mary Ann was born, Hannah's occupation was listed as "formerly Servant". Does anyone know of houses in the area who would have employed servant in the mid to late 1800s? Who knows I could be related to Earl/Lord/Duke of Harewood!

Ben I know you're a good detective in this space, where do you think I can research further around this?

Gt Grandma is a major frustration - the only other thing she left behind is the photo of a mystery relative called "Aunt Sarannie" who I can't track to anyone on my tree at all! Aagggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Jill
 

leefer

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#2
So basicly Jill really trying to find out ware Hannah worked as a servant is key really....the certificate has obviously been doctored....do you know what Aunt Sarannies sirname could have been?
 

juliejtp

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#3
Hi Jill,

Ancestry take the information from the Free BMD site, so there may have been an error in which she wasnt transcribed. I have a couple of certificates which have been printed. When I ordered one through them did did state that it may be printed, though it is nice to have an actual photocopy of the handwriting.
 

juliejtp

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#4
Hi Jill,

Looks like Mary Ann in 1871 under Moule.

Civil parish Headingley With Burley
RD Leeds
Sub RD Kirkstall

5, Fountain Grove


Luke Moule age 29 occ forge man born Croydon Cambridgeshire
Mary Ann dau age 11 born Kirkstall Leeds
William Moule brother age 27 born Croydon Cambridgeshire
George Austin father in law age 66 occ spinner born Armley
Sarah Lunn sister in law? age 38 born Kirkstall (perhaps auntie Sarah Annie)
George Wm Lunn nephew age 18 occ boot and shoe maker born Kirkstall
Eliza neice age 15 occ mill hand woollen born Kirkstall
Edwin Lunn nephew age 14 occ boot and shoe maker born Kirkstall
Joe? Lunn nephew age 13 occ boot and shoe maker born Kirkstall
Mary Emma neice age 11 born Kirkstall
Louisa Lunn neice age 9 born Kirkstall
Jane Ann Lunn neice age 3 born Kirkstall
James Lunn nephew age 2 born Kirksall
Ann Harding sister in law age 27 occ woollen weaver born Kirkstall
Ada Harding neice age 5 born Kirkstall
William Harding nephew age 2 born Kirkstall

Class RG10
Piece 4573
Folio 53
Page 2


Phew didnt think I'd get to the end of that :D
 

JMR

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#7
Hi Lee Yes I am really keen to know where Hannah might have worked. I'm going to be home in December and Jamuary and could have a look at Kirstall, but am not really sure where to start. Any suggestions woud be gratefully accepted. I have no real idea of Sarannie's surname could be Austin or Gaunt, but them if she married that throws that out. Dad has no idea at all and it would be his side. She doesn't look familiar at all so hard to attach her to any of my rellies on looks.

Thanks Julie, that is my Mary Ann I'm almost sure, because Mary Emma Lunn was a witness on Mary Ann and John Gaunts wedding certificate. I had this Sarah as one of the contenders for Sarannie, but I have pretty much eliminated her because I think she died (there's a death listed for a Sarah Lunn about 1894) before the photo was taken it looks like it would have been taken in about 1910. What do you think?

Jill
 

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juliejtp

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#9
Hi Jill,

Theres a marriage for a Sarah Annie Austin in 1880 district Leeds, grooms
Samuel Thomas Lowe and George Ossitt. the other bride listed is a Maria Cockcroft.
 

leefer

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#10
Hi Lee Yes I am really keen to know where Hannah might have worked. I'm going to be home in December and Jamuary and could have a look at Kirstall, but am not really sure where to start. Any suggestions woud be gratefully accepted. I have no real idea of Sarannie's surname could be Austin or Gaunt, but them if she married that throws that out. Dad has no idea at all and it would be his side. She doesn't look familiar at all so hard to attach her to any of my rellies on looks.

Thanks Julie, that is my Mary Ann I'm almost sure, because Mary Emma Lunn was a witness on Mary Ann and John Gaunts wedding certificate. I had this Sarah as one of the contenders for Sarannie, but I have pretty much eliminated her because I think she died (there's a death listed for a Sarah Lunn about 1894) before the photo was taken it looks like it would have been taken in about 1910. What do you think?

Jill
What a great picture...ware was it taken Jill,will try and sort a location for you start looking near the Kirkstall area..
Also good work Julie...............dont know how you do it.
 

JMR

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#11
Thanks Julie, I'll see if I can track this Sarah Annie back to this lady!. How old do you think she looks in this photo?

Lee - the photo looks like it would have been taken in or around the Priestman St area of Bradford where most of Mary Ann's children and she herself were living around that time. I have a photo of my Grandma in a similar situation and the backyard and chair look similar, it would have been taken some years later though.
 

leefer

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The reason i asked Jill is cos i think it is possibly in the countryside looking at that wall,maybe a farm or something and she looks to be posing so maybe at a photographers location,never know though i expect............great photo though.
 

JMR

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#13
Thanks for the reassurance that typing certificates is normal practice, Julie. I'm wondering of there might be more information in Parish registers if I go along to Kirkstall and have a look aound?

Hannah had another illegitimate child 10 years before Mary Ann named John Edward, I'd love to find out if they had the same Father and if they might both have been children of the master of the house or a son perhaps!!!
 

juliejtp

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Hi Jill,

I've had a look, but it's hard to say how old she dosnt look wrinkly, and being unable to see her hair dosnt help but on a quess would say 60ish. Was wondering what is the matter with her hand it looks covered?
 

JMR

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#15
Yes Julie, her hand does look odd. Just had a look at the original and blew that part up a bit. Could be she suffered from arthritis, her hands look quite puffy and veiny. I agree that her age is hard to determine. In the original photo her eyes look quite sightless as well, so not sure about her. Mary Ann went blind before she died at 76.
 

JMR

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#17
Hi Leefer,

Thanks for this web-site URL. I will have a closer look when I get home from work. I have my Wells family well documented back to 1650. They and many other of my family lines have been generous in tipping up their information, unlike my pesky Austin/Gaunt and Pawson lines.

I don't think this family is a direct line of mine, but they maybe cousins especially if the Kirkstall Austin clan married in!

There is a great Wells Web-site that has nearly all the Wells family lines in England on it. I found lots of contacts through it.

Cheers,
Jill
 

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