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Guthrie, Austin, Rankin

AthenaLou

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#1
Looking for relatives, surname Guthrie. My father was Ian Mcleod Guthrie b. 1926 (Islington, N. London) m. 1949 (Ruth Lilian Rankin B. 1930. d. 2007) d. 1997 (Plumstead/ Greenwich). He had 9 sisters, some are deceased now but some still living.
My search for ancestry stops with my paternal grandfather, William Robertson Guthrie. Born in Scotland in or around March 1888, he somehow ended up in London, England. He was apparently married twice, my nan (my father's birth entry states her as Mary Louisa Guthrie, nee Austin b. 1900. d. 1985)being his second wife. I was informed that he had 2 sons from his first marriage, and one of the sons was blind. Not sure how the marriage dissolved, (or if it was ever actually dissolved). The sons from his first marriage apparently emigrated to New Zealand with their mother. No dates on the emigration, no ceratin names for his sons or first wife.
Not sure if my grandparents were actually married, as I have searched many times, through many different bmd websites, and through family records centre in London. I cannot find any trace of a marriage entry.
He served in the navy and somewhere I have a picture of him in his uniform. I would think he served during WWI, but again no certainty.
I have found electoral roll entries for him living in Plumstead, London with my nan from around 1939/40 to 1962, when he died. I know they lived in Campbell Rd, Islington, N. London in 1926 as thats is recorded on my father's birth certificate.
I have searched the scottish census for 1891 many times, and have managed to find only one entry for a William R. Guthrie, who was 3 in the 1891 census, which makes a match to my grandfathers details, but thats where the match ends, as the middle initial stands for Russel and not Robertson, so I am not sure that I have the right family. There was a story that my grandfather changed his name at one point and I'm not sure how true this is.
I would like details of my grandfathers first marriage, as this may give me clues of his parents and maybe I could trace exactly where in Scotland he was born, details of any children/ancestors from my grandfathers first marriage. (I am planning a trip to Scotland in 2009 to search for his birth certificate etc, but im thinking this will be difficult due to the very confused information I have been given by family members.)

I am also looking for relatives/ancestors from my mothers side of the family. Born in East London in 1930, Ruth Lilian Rankin was the eldest daughter of William Frederick Rankin (b.1905 d.1967) and Lilian Minnie Middleton (b.1904 d.1984)
I need info on their marriage to be able to get info on their parents.
My mother had 3 siblings, Ronald (b.1931/2 d.1932/3.) (He was only 1 when he died. The story is he died when my great grandmother collapsed on top of him, whilst pushing him along in his pram. She also died of head injuries(?) Joan Margaret (b. ?) and Violet (b. ? d.1978
 

juliejtp

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#2
HI,

The National Archives at Kew hold service records records for the Navy. Records between 1853-1923 can be downloaded for £3.50. There is a William Guthrie born Rothsay Buteshire date 16 Apr 1887 (this would be his date of birth, as my gt grandad was navy and the date given 1863 which was the year of his birth.

My gt grandad also lived in Plumstead and also born Islington.
 

juliejtp

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#3
It looks as thought the above William Guthrie born Rothesay was in 1901 a boy under detention on the Empress school ship in Dumbartsonshire.
 

dochines

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#6
The story of the tragic death of Ronald Rankin would almost certainly have been covered by the local Newspapers of the day. You do not say where in East London but I would think the papers most likely to carry a report would be the East London Advertiser, The East London Gazette and the Guardian ( Walthamstow , Leyton, Chingford, Ilford, Woodford etc ). These can be searched at the Newspaper library at Colindale N London. Unfortunately not yet on line. I did a quick check in the Times which is on line but the story seems not to have made national papers.

Hope that might give a lead

Dochines who lived in East London 1964-2006 !!
 

AthenaLou

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#7
My father was the second child of the second marriage, he had an older female sibling called Lily Winifred, born I believe in Feb 1924.
My nan was also married before apparently, and she had a daughter called Marion Sabina (Mary as we all called her) born in Sept 1921. We were told that my nan's first married name was Bishop, but again I can not find any marriage entry.
Altogether there was 10 children.

Marion Sabina b. Sept 21 - daughter from the marriage of Mary Louisa Austin (maiden name) and ? Bishop?

Lily Winifred b. Feb 1924
Elsie Irene b. July 1934
Barbara Maud b. August 1935

other siblings I am yet to find out dates of birth so as to put them in order of birth

Joan, Grace, Ina, Lorna, Sonia
 

juliejtp

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#9
Marions birth is registered under Mary A Bishop mothers maiden name Austin.

Have you looked under the overseas marriages, could be that Marions father was in the army so the marriage maybe listed there. Other than that her birth certificate will have the fathers name and occupation.

What was your grandads occ on your dads birth/marriage certificate. Just wondered if he came out of the navy and worked for the Woolwich Arsenal seeing that they lived in Plumstead.
 

AthenaLou

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#10
Will look for the picture of my grandfather later, it could be in my loft, boxed, as I have been waiting for a move so a lot of my stuff is boxed. We have had a good look at the picture and its hard to see the name of the ship on his hat.

Seems strange as to why my nan would have her name as Mary A rather than Mary L as her middle name was Louisa.

Unfortunately I cant ask family members as they are very old fashioned and think that family tracing isn't the done thing. It's a shame as they could probably help me a lot wiht my search.
 

juliejtp

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#12
Bingo,

Found your grandparents marriage.

Year 1935
Oct/Nov/Dec 1/4
District Islington

William R Guthrie spouse Austin matches with a Mary A L Austin

Vol 1b
Page 650
 
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AthenaLou

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#13
woooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww! u absolute star!!!!!!!!! could u send me the link for the website u r using coz im not finding anything total brain block here thank u so much for finding their marriage im so greatful that info will help me find my great grandparents now
 

AthenaLou

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#15
Hi Julie
Thanx for the link me....has proved valuable....used it and am finding loads of stuff regarding my fathers siblings.....still hitting brick walls with tracing my grandfathers birth tho.....and now with my nan's birth arghhhhhhhhh!

on my fathers birth cert. it gives his fathers name as William Richard Guthrie.....but on his death cert, entry of death and on his grave stone it states William Robertson Guthrie.......and his occupation as a steeple jack.

Gettin' a headache! :)
 

juliejtp

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#16
Going by your grans name on the marriage index there is a birth for a Mary Ann L Austin in 1902 district Camberwell.

Your grand parents marriage certificate will give fathers names and occ. It will be interesting to know what info has been given for the grooms father.

I would think that steeplejack would indicate that he lived in a built up area
 

AthenaLou

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#19
hiya
Looked through scotlands people a couple of weeks back found some stuff on william r guthrie but im not sure if its the right family gonna try to order my nans and grandfathers marriage cert tomorrow and the cert for my nans first marriage as well
The Alfred Bishop rings bells........on my dads birth cert it states only Louisa as my nans middle name....but u found her with 2 initials in the middle.......will be interesting to find out if she did drop one of her names....and even more interesting to know why....although that will remain a mystery unfortunately........her first marriage dates do tally with my 'half' aunts (nans eldest child) d.o.b sept 1921 which means nan was either just pregnant or caught for my aunt straight away......watch this space
 

AthenaLou

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#20
Hi Julie

just received my paternal grandparents marriage certificate......and you were definitely right.......you found some info a few weeks back for which listed my nan's name as Mary Ann Louisa......and sure enough on the marriage cert.....she is registered as Mary Ann Louisa strange as to why she dropped the name Ann im gonna order her borth certificate today and find out who her parents were i know her fathers name from marriage cert (Frederick Austin - occupation glass blower) but need to find out who the mother was and where born gonna check census info to so ty again you're a star :)
 

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