HANCOCK and MOGG

[DaveHam9]

Hello,

NSW marriage 471/1861 HANCOCK JOHN M. - MOGG ELIZABETH - SYDNEY

NSW Death 10408/1889 HANCOCK JOHN M - PETER - DIED WINDSOR - WINDSOR

I don't know how accurate that 'Peter' bit is.

HANCOCK John Mill Funeral notice 04DEC1889 Funeral late of Mulgrave, near Windsor SMH 04DEC1889

The Sydney Morning Herald - Wednesday 4 December 1889 p.14
Funerals.
THE FRIENDS of the late Mr. JOHN MILL HANCOCK are respectfully invited to attend his Funeral, to move from his late residence, Woodlands, Mulgrave, near Windsor, THIS (Wednesday) AFTERNOON.

Windsor and Richmond Gazette (NSW : 1888-1954) - Saturday 7 December 1889 p.4
DEATH OF MR. J. M. HANCOCK.-On Tuesday last, a much-esteemed and very old resident of this district. Mr. John Mills Hancock, breathed his last at his late residence near Mulgrave. For a long time Mr. Hancock had been ailing, and during his latter years he suffered a deal from sickness. He had many friends throughout the district. He was an old member of the Masonic fraternity, and on Wednesday, when the funeral took place, the members of the Richard Coley Lodge, in regalia, preceded the hearse. There was a large attendance of district and town residents. Mr. T. Collison conducted the funeral, and it is needless to say that he carried out every arrangement in a perfect and most satisfactory manner. The deceased gentleman was 71 years of age.

Grave Details
Name: John Mill Hancock
Died: 3rd December 1889
Age:
Cemetery: St Matthews Anglican Cemetery, Windsor
Location: Right section, row 1 plot 7


NSW Death 6859/1897 HANCOCK ELIZABETH - JOHN - HARRIET - WINDSOR

I don't know how accurate the 'John & Harriet' bit is either.

HANCOCK Elizabeth Death notice 08APR---- Death 67 at Windsor SMH 09APR1897

The Sydney Morning Herald - Friday 9 April 1897 p.1
Deaths.
HANCOCK.-April 8, at the residence of her son-in-law, Dight-street, Windsor, Elizabeth, relict of the late John Mill Hancock, of Woodlands, Mulgrave, aged 67 years.

The Sydney Morning Herald - Friday 9 April 1897 p.8
Funerals.
HANCOCK.-The FUNERAL of the late Mrs. ELIZABETH HANCOCK will move from the residence of her son-in-law, Dight-street Windsor, THIS (Friday) AFTERNOON, at 3 o'clock sharp, for St. Matthew's Church of England Cemetery.
T. COLLISON and SON, Undertakers, Windsor.

Grave Details
Name: Elizabeth Hancock
Died: 8th April 1897
Age:
Cemetery: St Matthews Anglican Cemetery, Windsor
Location: Right section, row 1 plot 7

Information from the birth certificate of the first born in NSW - John is a Publican from Devon and Elizabeth is from Somerset.

MOGG Elizabeth 25 'Fitzjames' 1858 Sydney and/or Newcastle Reel 2138, [4/4795]; Reel 2477, [4/4974]
Arrived 28 Jul 1858 - Elizabeth 25 Gen. House Servt. Somerset CofE Read & write

So we have:

Eliza/Elizabeth MOGG born abt 1830-1833 Somerset - parents possibly John & Harriet.

I can't find a parents marriage or a birth/baptism that fits for John or Elizabeth.

John Mill HANCOCK b. abt 1818 Devon - father possibly Peter - arrived in Australia ???


Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Death 2072/1881 MITCHELL HENRY - JOHN - DIED PELICAN - SYDNEY

Henry is John's brother-in-law but I don't know yet who Henry married.

NSW 1840-1881 no MITCHELL + HANCOCK or MOGG marriage.

Marriages Jun 1858
Browning Louisa Wells 5c 1031
Gillingham David Wells 5c 1031
Mitchell Henry Wells 5c 1031
Mogg Harriett Wells 5c 1031

Marriages Sep 1873
MITCHELL Henry Stoke D. 5b 586
MOGG Sarah Jane Stoke D. 5b 586
Saville Elizabeth Stoke D. 5b 586
Tucker Duncan Campbell Stoke D. 5b 586


I've got one last hat to eat if I have to. I've made my guess.

Death 273/1895 MITCHELL HARRIET - JOHN - HARRIET - SYDNEY

MITCHELL Harriet Death notice 24FEB Death 71 at Darlinghurst Sydney Morning Herald 26FEB1895

Is that the right death with age way out or wrong death?

 

[gibbo]

Henry's death notices just state Mrs Mitchell so they arent any help with her name

 

[DaveHam9]

Even before I found this:

MITCHELL Harriet 22 Fitzjames 1858 Sydney and/or Newcastle and husband Reel 2138, [4/4795]; Reel 2477, [4/4974]
MITCHELL Henry 23 Fitzjames 1858 Sydney and/or Newcastle and wife Reel 2138, [4/4795]; Reel 2477, [4/4974]

Henry Plumber Somerset CofE Read & write
Harriet Wife Somerset CofE Read & write

Married in June Qtr and arrived 28 July. ???

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks gibbo. Ah, the double 'tt' in the 1858 marriage.

Has to be Harriet - married sister on same vessel. So does not help with John M. - not his sister.

The old posts found by googling re this family have no age for John so they think he is the one born 1844 but it can't be that one.

Ok I can see a problem. Age at death gives birth about 1824 and age on shipping record gives 1836.

So that has to be sorted. I chose the 1895 death because parents John & Harriet matched those of Elizabeth's death so I could be wrong. A different address - not Pelican street.

I can't see a birth/baptism for Harriet in Somerset 1822-1837.

1836 for Harriet and 1833 for Elizabeth would make sense so I hope 1841 and 1851 census can help there. Parents may not be John & Harriet.

 

[DaveHam9]

Still don't know if I have the right death for Harriet.

Can't find a tree for any of the connected families.

Not this one - family from Derbyshire
HANCOCK John 6 'St Vincent' 1844 Sydney and/or Newcastle and family Reel 2135, [4/4785] Page 183; Reel 2454, [4/4900]



Empire (Sydney, NSW : 1850 - 1875) - Monday 11 August 1873 p.3
CENTRAL POLICE COURT-SATURDAY.
...
Joseph Johnson was charged with having assaulted one John Mill Hancock, landlord of the Hope and Anchor Hotel at the corner of Duke and Sussex streets. ...

 

[gibbo]

Still don't know if I have the right death for Harriet.

Can't find a tree for any of the connected families.

And then there is the Harriett's with double T at the end

death index
14616/1907 MITCHELL HARRIETT JAMES MARIA MUDGEE
1116/1867 MITCHELL HARRIETT WILLIAM DIED SYDNEY SYDNEY

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks gibbo.

Looking for births in NSW 1858 onwards for MITCHELL with mother = Harriet(t) but none with father =Henry/Harry. Lots of others so about 8 different Harriet(t) MITCHELLs.

Although I know for sure John M. was a publican in Sydney I don't have proof he is the one who ended up at Windsor. There is a clue here though - marriage of one of his daughters:

The Sydney Morning Herald - Monday 3 November 1890 p.7
MARRIAGES
M'KELLAR-HANCOCK.-September 24, at St. Matthew's Church, Windsor, by the Rev. G. A. D'Arcy Irvine, George Sinclair M'Kellar to Harriet Hancock.

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Dave,

A possibilty for the Mogg family in 1841.

Civil parish Street - RD Wells - Sub RD Glastonbury

John Mogg age 35 occ stone cutter
Harrio(e)t Mogg age 30
James Mogg age 12
Elizabeth Mogg age 9
Harrio(e)t Mogg age 6
Alfred Mogg age 3
Emma Mogg age 1

All born in county

Class H0107
Piece 964
Book 22
Folio 30
Page 16

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Julie,

Thank you very much.

That does fit quite well. I'll search now to see if I can find any more of that family in NSW.

Elizabeth is the only one on the 'Fitzjames' as a MOGG. No sign of brothers.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

The other thing that worries me is the 1861 marriage if John was born in 1818.

I need to check if there is a 2nd John M. marriage to an Elizabeth.


Marriage V18512 97/1851 HANCOCK JOHN - COOPER ELIZA LD= RC St
Mary's Sydney

Lots of John HANCOCK marriages in Devon to Eliza(beth).


====
Going back to known facts:

Marriage 471/1861 HANCOCK JOHN M. - MOGG ELIZABETH - SYDNEY

First birth 1451/1861 HANCOCK FEMALE - JOHN M - ELIZABETH - SYDNEY

Last birth 123/1873 HANCOCK MATILDA - JOHN M - ELIZABETH - SYDNEY

1861 birth certificate states that John is a Publican from Devon and Elizabeth from Somerset.

Are they the two buried at Windsor?

Searching for 'john mill hancock' in TROVE gives no overlap to suggest there are two of them.

 

[DaveHam9]

Marriage 1069/1865 SMITH FRANCIS - MOGG EMMA - SYDNEY

MOGG Emma 25 'Trebolgan' 1865 Sydney Reel 2140, [4/4789]; Reel 2483, [4/4990]

Arrived 28 Jun 1865

Emma Nurse Street, Somersetshire CofE Read & write

Origin and age for Emma fit the family in 1841 in the Parish of Street.

Births Mar 1840
Mogg Emma Wells 10 519

I can't see any children to Francis & Emma.

From Reel 2483:

Mogg Emma 25 - nurse - Ireland ?, Street, Somersetshire - Harriet & Jno. - Rathforeland ? - C.E. - Read & write - Relations in Colony: Sydney Two sisters and brother-in-law


Written above Street, Somersetshire appears to be 'Ireland' - It's not England as per others on page.

Written above Harriet & Jno. appears to be Rathforeland. I can't turn that into anything else. ???

 

[DaveHam9]

Reel 2477

'Fitzjames' arrived 28 July 1858

Mogg Elizabeth 25 - General House Servant - Street, Somerset - John & Harriet Dead - C.E. - Read & write - No relations in colony -

Mitchell
Henry 23 - Plumber - Langport, Somersetshire - John & Mary living at Langport - C.E. - Read & write - no relations in colony - Good condition - no complaints - £1
Harriet 22 - Wife - Street, Somersetshire - John & Harriet Dead - C.E. - Read & write - no relations in colony - Good condition - no complaints - £1

 

[DaveHam9]

Elizabeth died at the residence of a son-in-law at Dight-street, Windsor in 1897 - several possibles - two and possibly three daughters married:

7643/1890 MACKELLAR GEORGE E - HANCOCK HARRIET J - WINDSOR

6287/1896 PYE SYDNEY G - HANCOCK MATILDA - WINDSOR


Deaths
11822/1945 PYE SYDNEY GEORGE - DAVID - JANET - PARRAMATTA
14135/1938 PYE MATILDA - JOHN MILL - ELIZABETH ANN - CHATSWOOD

Neither in Ryerson


Matilda Pye 1930 New South Wales Parramatta

Matilda Pye 1930 New South Wales Warringah