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Helena Maude Brunsdon and Charles James Taylor

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#1
Hello
Does anybody have any ideas about how I can find out if my grandparents married?
They were Helena Maude Brunsdon (b.1895) and Charles James Taylor.
They lived in Liverpool when my Dad was born in 1928 and later lived in Prestwich, Manchester (Lancs.).

There is no details about a marriage on general record searches.
And I have just ordered my Dad's birth cert and found that his parents were living separately and my gran still had her maiden name at the time of his birth.
Now I don't know if they ever did marry, although I was always led to believe that they were and my Gran used Taylor as her surname (I never met my Grandfather.)
Any ideas?
Many thanks
Helen
 

gortonboy

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#3
did they both end up in the Heywood/Bury area ? i may have a lead on your grandads birth and parentage,,,i may be barking up the wrong tree though :)

i will await your reply....it would help if you knew when and where Helena died also,,,cheers GB. Oh welcome to the forum by the way :)
 
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#4
Hello again

Helena Maude Taylor (Brunsdon) died in 1983 in Prestwich.
Her death cert (registered by my Dad) lists her as widow of Charles James Taylor, retired Drapery Salesman.

As far as I know they lived in Liverpool then moved to Prestwich. My Gran had a Liverpool accent. I never met my Grandfather.
I have one photo of Charles James with my Dad when he was 3 (so about 1931). The only other snippets of info I can remember being told is that he had a 'withered arm' and my Dad had an uncle Willie who killed himself, so am thinking Charles James could have had a brother William maybe?

The only other thing I know about Charles James is what I have gleaned from my Dad's birth cert that I only received two days ago. Most importantly that he and Helena were living apart in Liverpool and she is still a Brunsdon!
His occupation is listed as Publishers Traveller (whatever that is).
My family were Catholics, so I would have expected a Catholic marriage between Charles James and Helena. Especially as my Dad later trained as a priest (although was never ordained).

I don't know Charles James' birth date, nor death. Although don't remember my Dad saying his father died when he was a child, so kind of assume he was at least 18 (he was born in 1928 ). I also don't think my Mum ever met Charles James and my parents married in 1965.

Any ideas
Helen
 
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gortonboy

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#5
Hi,,,only got circumstantial reasons so far for putting forward this Charles as a candidate.
1st reason,,,,he has a brother William.

1891 census
National Archive Reference:
RG number:RG12
Piece:2938
Folio:22
Page:39

Parish:Toxteth Park

Address:45, Maitland Street, Toxteth Park, Liverpool

County:Lancashire

TAYLOR, William Head Married M 42 1849 Coach Wheel Maker Liverpool

TAYLOR, Catherine Wife Married F 41 1850 Isle of Man

TAYLOR, William J Son M 16 1875 Cook Sellers Assistant Liverpool

TAYLOR, Mary A Daughter F 14 1877 Apprentice Dressmaker

TAYLOR, Elizabeth Daughter F 13 1878 Scholar

TAYLOR, Catherine T Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar

TAYLOR, Charles J Son M 6 1885 Scholar
 

gortonboy

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#6
2nd reason....he has knowledge of drapery and books.

1901 census 20, Webb Street, West Derby

National Archive Reference:

RG number:RG13
Piece:3488
Folio:53
Page:12

Parish:West Derby

Address:20, Webb Street, West Derby

County:Lancashire

TAYLOR, William Head Married M 52 1849 Coach Wheel Maker Liverpool, Lancashire

TAYLOR, Catherine Wife Married F 51 1850 Isle of Man

TAYLOR, Mary A Daughter Single F 24 1877 Draper's Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire

TAYLOR, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 22 1879 Liverpool, Lancashire

TAYLOR, Catherine T Daughter Single F 20 1881 Draper's Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire

TAYLOR, Charles J Son Single M 16 1885 Book Seller's Assistant Liverpool, Lancashire
 

gortonboy

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#7
3rd reason he has been a travelling salesman


Reg. District:West Derby

Parish:Wavertree

Address:24 Mindale Road
County:Lancashire

BURKE, Walter Francis Head Married M 28 1883 Railway Clerk Toxteth Lpool

BURKE, Elizabeth Wife F 32 1879 Dingle Lpool

TAYLOR, Charles J Brother In Law Single M 26 1885 Traveller In Tea Trade Toxteth Lpool
 

gortonboy

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#10
searching for a death of a Charles J Taylor b 1885 there is this possible?

Name: TAYLOR, Charles J

Registration district: Heywood

County: Lancashire

Year of registration: 1959

Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep

Age at death:74

Volume no: 10C

Page no: 328
 

gortonboy

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#11
Are you sure Helena died in Prestwich? there is this death



Name: TAYLOR, Helena Maud

Registration district: Bury

County: Lancashire

Year of registration: 1983

Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec

Date of Birth:17 April 1895

Volume no: 38

Page no: 0579

So,,,if this is Helena,,,it suggests that both She and Charles were in the Bury/Heywood area ???/ just trying to knit things together ??? :)
 

gortonboy

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#12
if we have the right Charles...seems he was actually born in 1884

Birth

Name:TAYLOR, Charles James

Registration district:Toxteth Park

County:Lancashire

Year of registration:1884

Quarter of registration:Oct-Nov-Dec

Volume no:8B
Page no:239
 
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#13
hello!
This is all absolutely brilliant.
I think you may have got the right man because my brother also has some deep buried memory of my dad saying his grandfather was a wheel wright (I don't remember this at all), which ties in with the first record you found.
Plus all the drapery links tie in.

I had a two-week free trail to ancestry and found so many Charles J Taylors in Liverpool but never this one.
Thank you so much. :)

My Gran definitely did die in Prestwich as I knew her. BUT Prestwich is in the registration district of Bury and her death cert (which I have) says Bury on it.
So Charles James could also have been in Prestwich and his death registered in district of Bury.

So does this mean they never married but lived together?
 
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#16
I haven't been able to find any marriage either.
I just can't work out why they didn't marry though.
Even if they hadn't married by the time my Dad was born, why didn't they marry later?
Maybe she was Catholic and he wasn't?

My Gran certainly called herself Helena Maude Taylor.
All very strange...

What do you think is the best way of working out if the Charles James you found is the right one?
Should I order the death cert? As presumably if he is my CJ the death would be registered by my Dad or Gran...

Thanks so much for all your help.
Ridiculous that I can't even get past my Grandparents, never mind make it to the 16th century!
:D
 

gortonboy

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#17
i think the death cert is the only way forward at the minute,,,,,have you looked for him in the WW1 records on Ancestry,,,if he was b 1885,,he should be the right age to have fought in WW1....you can search using the details i have found,,,,only 30 percent of WW1 service records survive,,,but you might get lucky.
 

karen

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#19
I haven't been able to find any marriage either.
I just can't work out why they didn't marry though.
Even if they hadn't married by the time my Dad was born, why didn't they marry later?
Maybe she was Catholic and he wasn't?


My Gran certainly called herself Helena Maude Taylor.
All very strange...



Thanks so much for all your help.
Ridiculous that I can't even get past my Grandparents, never mind make it to the 16th century!
:D
Have you considered he might have been married previously and unable to divorce???
This was the case with one of my Aunts who lived as man and wife with her partner using his name for 40yrs until they finally married after his first wife died.:eek:
 
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#20
Hi Karen
Yes I did wonder if he was already married, especially as Helena didn't have my dad until she was in her early 30s - which seems quite old in those days (although I was older myself when i had my kids :eek:)

I'll try and search marriages again with the suggested Charles James from here and see if i can find him with anyone else.

GB, yes we have gone back with Helena's family to a certain extent.
Both grandmothers have been much easier, especially my mum's mum who we have more info on and knew very well.
Re the WW1 records we did find some for Charles Taylor, but will try again with the CJ you have found. The only thing is, we were always told he had a 'withered arm' (horrible phrase) which we assumed meant he was disabled from birth. Wouldn't that have ruled him out from service?
 

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