help or advice wanted - Barnet Burns

[gibbo]

I think Geoff is right we are looking at two different Barnet Burns.

If not more :2fun::2fun:

 

[gibbo]

The Morning Post (London, England),
Monday, April 18, 1836

 

[popsit]

Something to ponder if you don't have it..

Bridget Cain says she was a spinster when marrying Barnet..
Witnesses at the marriage = William Burns and Honora Riley
Barnet signed with his mark, as did William the witness.

Geoff

I definitely did not have this little snippet, thank you lots for that

Popsit

 

[popsit]

I hope I have found the correct censuses in 1841 & 1851, Rosina quite a difference on occupations But they appear to be the same people..

Geoff

Definitely a big difference as she was down as a pedlar in the 1841 census. Me thinks it was a posh name conjured up in their minds to attract people to the shows they put on. Yes you can definitely roll your eyes lol

Popsit

 

[popsit]

Under the patronage of Lecesne, Burns went to the Lancasterian school at Borough Road in London.He (Burns)would have been age about 20?
Then was unable to sign his marriage lines.
To me he is a fake.

1841 Census IS George Barnet Burns ,with his future wife ,born Scotland. It is him himself putting up Brickwalls.
Writes his own history ,saying he is "English "born sailor. Then in 1851 Census uses the "Brittish Subject " as birth.I do believe he was in Jamica and came across people who stated they were Brittish Subjects. We had army there at that time .Could have been Lecesne himself who was a Brittish Subject. I believe he embroidered his life.

Ellie

Well said, my thoughts exactly. At one of his lectures he had been booed and jeered at and called fake so not every one was taken in. I am going so far as to say the name Barnet could have been added by himself as his birth details are just plain George. Barnet sounds more up market.
Can I ask, the Lancastrian school, was it a special school or just an ordinary every day school as he was as you say aged 20. What would he be going back to school for, it wasn't to learn how to read and write. I think he just lived on his wits so to speak. It would be easy to go around "lecturing" on ones life experiences wouldn't it. With the help of a full face maori tattoo, people would be amazed. He would have been what you might call................. con artist, rogue.

He married a French woman in france in 1838, 22nd Sept. Apparently had two children with her who died young. I have written to the Maire, town hall, 7th Arrondissment for confirmation of said marriage.

 

[popsit]

I found some more information on FMP, I don't know if it helps or confuses the matter

First name(s) Barnet
Last name Burns
Age 22
Birth year 1808
Birth place Newry, Down
Rank Able Seaman
Ship or unit Columbine
Location West Indies Station
Entry year 1830
Entry date 29 Jul 1830

Could be he was born in Ulster hence British subject

Amanda

No, not mine. Thank you

Popsit

 

[horse]

He married a French woman in france in 1838, 22nd Sept. Apparently had two children with her who died young. I have written to the Maire, town hall, 7th Arrondissment for confirmation of said marriage.

Paris, France & Vicinity Marriages, 1700-1907
Charles barnet Burns
Marriage Date: 22 sept. 1838 [22 Sep 1838]
Parents = George Burns & Anne Commans
Spouse: Anne Mélaine Boval

If you don't get any luck from your letter, PM me your email and I'll send you the image details..

Geoff

 

[horse]

Anne's details..

Anne Mélanie Boval
Marriage Date: 22 sept. 1838 [22 Sep 1838]
Parents = Jean Baptiste Boval & Jeanne Louise Touchard
Spouse: Charles bunet Burns

Geoff

 

[popsit]

Paris, France & Vicinity Marriages, 1700-1907
Charles barnet Burns
Marriage Date: 22 sept. 1838 [22 Sep 1838]
Parents = George Burns & Anne Commans
Spouse: Anne Mélaine Boval

If you don't get any luck from your letter, PM me your email and I'll send you the image details..

Geoff

OMG!!!! I cant believe it, thank you for that, certainly wasn't expecting it. One small thing it says "Charles" barnet burns when it should be George and if you have been reading my other replies some of us think that he just called himself barnet. On his birth details he is only George. Also his mothers name was Anne Stewart and not Commans. Please don't think I am being ungrateful for the info, he appears to some of us as a conman. When you say PM me, I assume that's short for private message, can I ask where I find that



Popsit

 

[horse]

Click on my handle 'horse', then under my name on left side of page you'll see 'send message' under it, click on it then hit 'send a private message to horse'.

Geoff

 

[gibbo]

Following on from Geoff's post, i found this. Not sure what the copyright is regarding this attachment so i might have to delete it.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Marriage_of_Barnet_Burns_and_Anne_Melanie_Boval_1838_.jpg

 

[horse]

Following on from Geoff's post, i found this. Not sure what the copyright is regarding this attachment so i might have to delete it.

Yeah, I have 2 cert's, Gibbo.. but same as you, not sure of the copyright...

Geoff

 

[horse]

Interesting it says Barnet Burns, Gibbo.. On the Paris Marriages it says Charles Barnet Burns

Geoff

 

[horse]

Following on from Geoff's post, i found this. Not sure what the copyright is regarding this attachment so i might have to delete it.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Marriage_of_Barnet_Burns_and_Anne_Melanie_Boval_1838_.jpg

If you look further down on the 'wiki' page it mentions copyright, it looks to be OK to reproduce it, see what you think..

Geoff

 

[gibbo]

If you look further down on the 'wiki' page it mentions copyright, it looks to be OK to reproduce it, see what you think..

Geoff

Thanks Geoff, i seen that just before and it seemed ok to leave up.

 

[gibbo]

Not sure what to make of this.
National archives uk

Prisoner name: BarnetByrnes (or BarnetBurns).
Prisoner occupation: Hawker and pedlar.
Court and date of trial: Bristol Quarter Sessions [Gloucestershire] October 1823.
Crime: Obtaining money under false pretences.
Initial sentence: Six months imprisonment and fine £10.
Annotated (Outcome): To be recommended in July.
Petitioner(s): The convict.
Grounds for clemency (Petition Details): Dependent family; cannot raise the money for fine.

 

[horse]

Bristol is interesting, Gibbo... Rosina's dau. Charlotte was b. there c1829.. May or may not have some significance..

Geoff

 

[gibbo]

Im just checking the newspapers but havent found anything just yet.. Re 1823 court case.

 

[horse]

Anc. has the prison records, can't see him listed..

Geoff

 

[gibbo]

Anc. has the prison records, can't see him listed..

Geoff

Im not finding anything in the papers for 1823.