Help to find a Sergeant Brazier, Fort Purbrook, Portsmouth

[bianca231978]

I am trying to uncover the identity of my great grandfather. My grandfather Wilfred Wiseman was born in 1918 at the Salvation Army Mother's Hospital in Clapton, London. I have ordered his birth record from the GRO. The father section was blank. I emailed Barts archives and this is the information I received: No.: 5217 Name: Winifred Wiseman Age: 25 Calling: Munitions Date of admission: 03/03/1918 Home received from: Cotland Address of nearest relative or friend: 4 [Lower?] Brookfield Road, KingsLow, Ports Religion: C of E Date of birth: 04/03/1918 Time: 1pm ***: Male Date registered: 18/03/1918 Name: Wilfred John Date notified: 05/03/1918 Nurse present: [Gladuin?] L. [Smith?] Date discharged: 19/03/1918. I also emailed the Salvation Army and was sent the extract from the Women's Social Work Secretary's Interview book and the alleged father is listed as Sergt.Brazier. Fort Purbrook, Portsmouth. As no first name was listed the search to find the correct Sergeant Brazier has been difficult. I have looked through many UK and Australian Army records but I could not find any Sergt. Brazier posted at Fort Purbrook. I have also had myself, my mother dna tested and my uncle Ydna tested and still can't solve my great grandfather mystery. Any research tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[horse]

Hi Bianca

Welcome to the site and good luck with your research.

Geoff

 

[horse]

Not necessarily a lot of help at this stage, but there is this Workhouse admission 1919..

London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1659-1930
Wilfred Wiseman
Adm Date: 17 Nov 1919
Type: Admission
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark
Place: London
Title: Newington Workhouse, Westmoreland Road Register, 1919-1920
[Image has Dob = 4/3/18]

Geoff

 

[horse]

You probably have his birth reg., confirmed as Hackney 1918 and mother = Wiseman..

Geoff

EDIT: I can't see an obvious Brazier/Wiseman marriage at a later date either..

 

[horse]

Oh!

I hadn't realised, Wilfred's [possible] mother was also admitted to the workhouse in 1919..

Winifred Wiseman
Birth Date: 1890
Admission Age: 29
Adm Date: 17 Nov 1919
Type: Admission
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark
Place: London
[Image has occ = servant. Admitted from Infirmary]

Geoff

 

[horse]

I notice Wilfred traveled to Western Australia in 1930, so something has happened between 1919-1930

Geoff

 

[stockpot]

He travelled to Western Australia with a group of children sent by the Child Emigration Society to Fairbridge Farm Pinjarra. Have you checked what records the Society holds on him?

Also on the passenger list he is Wilfred J K Wiseman, is the K significant ? perhaps his fathers name?

Good Luck
Elaine

 

[stockpot]

Following up the K initial, the only K Brazier I can find in WW1 is an Alfred Keeley Brazier, born 22.4.1894 and known to his family as Keeley.

He was in various regiments throughout the war but seems to have been a private rather than a sergeant and I don't know whether he was ever at Fort Purbrook. So only a remote chance of it being him!

(if Keeley rings a bell he is easy to follow up as he was an artist in Barmouth)

Elaine

 

[stockpot]

Are you aware that Winifred Wiseman had another illegitimate child?

The Workshop records mentioned above have :-

ADMITTED 17 Nov 1919
Wilfred Wiseman born 4.3.1918
Winifred Wiseman b. 1890
DISCHARGED same day, own request

ADMITTED 17 Oct 1920
Winifred Wiseman b. 1890
DISCHARGED no details

ADMITTED 3 Feb 1921
Winifred Wiseman b.1891
Dorothy M Wiseman b. 1920
DISCARGED no details

ADMITTED 18 May 1921
Winifred Wiseman b.1891
Dorothy M Wiseman b. 1920
DISCHARGE same day, Dorothy given as 7 mths, with mother

ADMITTED no details
DISCHARGED 30 July 1921 own request
Winifred Wiseman b. 1891
Dorothy Wiseman age 9 months with mother.

The admission of Winifred in Oct 1920 would be around the time of the birth of Dorothy. It may be worth getting the birth certificate (Q4 1920). Dorothy was illegitimate but there may be some other useful information. She does not seem to have been sent to Australia with her brother and it looks like Wilfred was not with his mother by that time.

Elaine

 

[horse]

There is a tree with some similar info that has been found, but would treat with caution, can't be sure if correct people yet...

It also points to this..
London E/R 1931 [Hendon]
33 New Brent Street
Arthur Farmer
Clara Oldaker
Winifred Wiseman

Oldaker is a former or maiden name of Winifred's mother.

A Winifred Wiseman married an Arthur Farmer in 1931

Marriages Q4 1931
Farmer Arthur H [Wiseman]
Wiseman Winifred M [Farmer]
Hendon
3a, 929

Still no closer to Mr Brazier

Geoff

 

[horse]

Dorothy Mabel's birth cert. has no father's details. Winifred gives her address as 269 Beresford Street, Camberwell.

Geoff

 

[stockpot]

Yes, the Gardiner family tree on Anc has a lot of information, including photos. Have you considered that perhaps Sgt Brazier could have been an American or Commonwealth soldier, hence the difficulty in finding him in UK records?

Elaine

 

[horse]

Yes, the Gardiner family tree on Anc has a lot of information, including photos. Have you considered that perhaps Sgt Brazier could have been an American or Commonwealth soldier, hence the difficulty in finding him in UK records?

Elaine

Yeah, a few possibilities for 1918, I even had a quick look in the CWGC nothing leaping out

Geoff

 

[horse]

Yeah, a few possibilities for 1918, I even had a quick look in the CWGC nothing leaping out

Entering Sergeant Brazier gives this HERE.

Geoff

 

[gibbo]

It also points to this..
London E/R 1931 [Hendon]
33 New Brent Street
Arthur Farmer
Clara Oldaker
Winifred Wiseman

On Wilfred's Australian WW2 records dated 1941 he noted next of kin as his mother, Winifred Wiseman, and her address as 4 Brent Street.

WISEMAN THOMAS WILFRED : Service Number - WX16665 : Date of birth - 04 Mar 1918 : Place of birth - HENDON ENGLAND : Place of enlistment - CLAREMONT WA : Next of Kin - WISEMAN WINIFRED

 

[gibbo]

Also on the passenger list he is Wilfred J K Wiseman, is the K significant ? perhaps his fathers name?

Not sure if this will help or not.

ID 1119
Surname : WISEMAN
Given name : Wilfred
Second name : John Kitchen
DOB 4/03/1918
Arrival Date : 8/07/1930
Cottage : Haig

http://fairbridgekids.com/attendance-1912-to-1939/

 

[horse]

Not sure, Gibbo..

Also he has acquired Thomas as a first name. His mother may not have advised him of her marriage. Not knowing the circumstances of 1930 WA arrival difficult to know what had gone on..

I can see where you are coming from, there are anomalies.. I think on balance this is the correct chap... Hopefully the original poster can confirm we are on the right track..

Geoff

 

[horse]

Not sure if this will help or not.

ID 1119
Surname : WISEMAN
Given name : Wilfred
Second name : John Kitchen
DOB 4/03/1918
Arrival Date : 8/07/1930
Cottage : Haig

http://fairbridgekids.com/attendance-1912-to-1939/

Interesting point here is that the DoB matches..

Geoff

 

[horse]

Yes, the Gardiner family tree on Anc has a lot of information, including photos. Have you considered that perhaps Sgt Brazier could have been an American or Commonwealth soldier, hence the difficulty in finding him in UK records?

I hadn't seen that one, Elaine.. The one I'd seen was 'Wild' [as in name only ]

Geoff

 

[horse]

If you google Sergeant Brazier there is this HERE..

Looking at the unit's history there is this"
3rd (Reserve) Battalion
04.08.1914 Stationed at Oxford and then moved to Portsmouth.
Oct 1917 Moved to Dover until the end of the war."

So there is/was a presence in Portsmouth... This is the link, you'll need to scroll down to see that in quotes.. HERE

Geoff