Help tracing Thomas B Kilner, Hudderfield -1881 census

[calliek]

Okay so I've found Thomas B's parents

Thomas Kilner m Anne Richardson Bamforth ( now I know where that name comes from) Sept 1839

KILNER Thomas Huddersfield 22 216

I've found 3 possible deaths for Thomas Kilner that fit him being dead by the 1861 census

Deaths Jun 1856
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 229
Deaths Mar 1858
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 230
Deaths Jun 1860
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 177

Still can't find a birth registry for Thomas B in 1855 or 56 as reflected by age in 1861 and 1871 census.

However I did get more info from relatives -William was born Nov 13 1880 which means he was born before they came to Canada as suspected but his sister Hilda was born Sept 21 1884 obviously in Canada since they arrived July of that year. I have yet to find a birth registry for either of these.

Can someone check the 1881 census for William and his mother Mary Elizabeth Thwaite - if the listing of Thomas for this census is the correct one he must not have been living with them at the time and since they weren't married until 1881 I don't know how William's birth would have been registered or if he would appear at all..

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Heather,

A possibilty for Williams birth

Year 1880
Oct/Nov/Dec 1/4

William Thwaite
District Wharfedale

Looks like Thomas birth

1855

Thomas Bamfirth Kilner
Apr/May/Jun 1/4
District Huddersfield

 

[juliejtp]

Hildas birith

Born Sept 21 1884
Birth county Wellington
Hilda Kilner
Father Thomas Kilner
Occ store clerk
Mother Elizabeth Thwaite (transcribed Whaite as by A------y)
Informant Edward Kilner -----
When registered Nov 26 1884

Found this as well though you might already have it

Birth

9 Sep 1908

Harold Burgess Verney
Birth county York
Father Walter Herman Verney
Mother Hilda Kilner

 

[calliek]

Hey Julie,

Looks like Thomas alright!

Not as sure about William- where is Wharfedale in relation to Huddersfield? And it makes me wonder if William was even a Kilner after all!

Hilda's info is fantastic thanks! I don't know anything about that side of the family at all so everything is useful

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Heather,

Have a look on Google maps you can see where Huddersfield and Wharfedale are.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&r...code_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CA0Q8gEwAA

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Heather,

The Mary E Thwaite I found in 1861 is with her mother and sister in 1881. Theres no William with them as per transcription and as there is a problem accessing the census image at the moment so I cant check the accuracy of the transcription. There is another Mary E Thwaite wife of Beaumont but there is no William with them either. For some reason accessing this census image for this one was ok.

 

[calliek]

Thanks Julie.

Three different possibilities for William's year of birth does complicate things. I wonder if my family has his birth year wrong- 1882 would certainly make more sense.

I'm having lunch with my aunt tomorrow- maybe she can shed some light on it.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello calliek & Julie,

1861

Civil parish Cudworth
RD Barnsley
Sub RD Darton

Anne R Kilner head age 42 widow born Cudworth
Edward son age 11 born Huddersfield
Mary E dau age 8 born Huddersfield
Walter H son age 7 born Huddersfield
Thomas B son age 5 born Huddersfield
Elizh Robinson servant

Class RG9
Piece 3442
Folio 5
Page 6

Julie, please see if you can find them in 1851 and 1841. Thanks.

I have a Thomas Henry KILNER b. 29 Jan 1812 in Huddersfield. I have no marriage and no death for him yet.
He may or may not be the one who married Anne Richardson BAMFORTH in 1839. Possibly not given this:

Marriages Jun 1840
BOWKER George
FRANCE Sarah
HARGREAVES Hannah
KILNER Thomas Henry
NOWELL John
PRIESTLEY Hannah
WALKER Benjamin
WOODCOCK Ann
Huddersfield 22 189

Regards,

Dave

 

[calliek]

Hi Dave, thanks for replying!

I have sent for Thomas and Anne R's marriage certificate ( and also a birth cert for one of the Williams born in 1882 that emeltee found) but I'm sure it will be a few weeks until they arrive in here Canada.

I spent the day yesterday with my aunt, and received a package from my father's cousin this morning so I now have lots more info on Mabel Finn's family and many photos including this one of Thomas B

and these of Elizabeth and William

Notice the birth date listed with William- I asked my aunt about this and she doesn't know where this info comes from so no way to verify, but it seems odd to me that there would be a photo of a child born out of wedlock in this era. Also notice the misspelling of Bamforth

Sorry about the poor quality- I don't have access to a scanner at the moment so these are photos of photocopies I received in the mail.

 

[juliejtp]

Hi,

See what you think!

1841

Civil parish Huddersfield
RD Huddersfield
Sub RD huddersfield
Hundreth Agbrigg (upper division)

Thomas Kilner age 25 occ merchant born in county
Ann Kilner age 20 born in county

Class HO107
Piece 1275
Book 13
Folio 10
Page 13

Civil parish Kirk Heaton
RD Huddersfield
Sub RD Kirk Heaton
Hundreth Agbrigg (upper division)

Thomas Kilner age 20 occ Flubber? born in county
Ann Kilner age 20 born in county
George Kilner age 1 born in county

Class HO107
Piece 1278
Book 2
Folio 41
Page 42

 

[juliejtp]

1851

Civil parish

Thomas Kilner head age 34 occ wool carder born Dalton
Ann wife age 30 born Dalton
George son age 10 born Dalton
Fred Kilner son age 9 born Dalton
Charles Kilner son age 7 born Dalton
Emeline dau age 4 born Dalton
Agnes dau age 1 born Dalton

Class H0107
Piece 2294
Folio 604
Page 24

This looks like the family in 1841 when Thomas occ is Flubber? as there is Matty Kilner widow and family living in the same house but listed as a seperate household and the same for 1841.

I cant locate the other Thomas and Ann Kilner in 1851.

 

[calliek]

Nope that's not mine.

For the other one, hard to tell- My Anne ( "Anne with an 'e' please" ...Anne of Green Gables! ) I think was born in 1819 so the age is slightly off there too. I have no dob for Thomas yet so can't say.

Guess I'll have to wait till I get my hands on Thomas and Anne R's marriage cert in a few weeks... sigh.

Thanks for the effort Julie!

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello calliek,

Thanks for the details. I'd not worry too much about the Bamforth/Banford/Bamfirth. I have several middle names in my tree such as Guist/Grist/G... where they are interchanged.

It may take a lot of time and money trying to solve this one because there are several Thomas KILNERs and at least two who married an Ann.

I have my doubts that my Thomas is the one who married Anne Richardson BAMFORTH even though I have shown he sometimes is listed without his middle name Thomas.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Julie,

Thanks for that look ups. I'd say that was probably Ann WOODCOCK with my Thomas the 'flubber' and wool carder.

Pity there is not an Anne R to be found in 1851.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello calliek,

I'd not worry about Anne or Ann or even if it's Hannah !!

Also, bear in mind that enumerators in 1841 were instructed to round down all given ages of 15 and above to the nearest multiple of 5. So, 20 could be anything from 20 to 24 assuming the correct age was known and that the correct age was actually given to the census taker.

The purchase of certificates will certainly help. I have not purchased any KILNER certificates because that branch of my tree is 3 marriages sideways removed from the main line.

Regards,

Dave

 

[juliejtp]

Death registration

Year 1897

Anne Richardson Kilner
Born abt 1819
Jan/Feb/Mar 1/4
District Northampton

Vol 3b
Page 53

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Julie,

Sometimes you can be lucky and have a middle name that makes a death stand out as being the one you want.

Regards,

Dave

 

[leefer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wharfedale

Good photos...glad your puzzle is gradually being put together.

 

[calliek]

Hello calliek,
Thanks for the details. I'd not worry too much about the Bamforth/Banford/Bamfirth. I have several middle names in my tree such as Guist/Grist/G... where they are interchanged.

It may take a lot of time and money trying to solve this one because there are several Thomas KILNERs and at least two who married an Ann.

I have my doubts that my Thomas is the one who married Anne Richardson BAMFORTH even though I have shown he sometimes is listed without his middle name Thomas.

Regards,

Dave

Thanks for the tips Dave. I have noticed there are many discrepancies and transcription errors. And I have been very fortunate with the distinctive middle names thank god since the first names are all too common.

In regards to your Thomas, I noticed that in emeltee's original post of the baptismals record (in your 1842 thread) that there wasn't a middle name given for Thomas. That was what made me think he could possibly be the same Thomas who married Anne R. Did you find him elsewhere to confirm that he was Thomas Henry- it isn't clear in that thread ( or I missed it).

I guess it will be confirmed one way or another once I see the marriage cert- I am far too impatient and the amount of info I have gathered in such a short time has spoiled me. Guess i 'll have to pick a different branch of the family to track in the meantime.

Julie- once again your tracking abilities leave me in awe and very grateful. I'm sure I will have many more questions although I hope I'm getting the hang of it slowly.

Leefer- thanks for the link. Glad you liked the pics- I have many more that I plan on putting together once I have all the info in place

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello calliek,

I have no doubt my Thomas has middle name of Henry. The problem is that it does not appear in all the census listings. There is an 'H' in 1851 and 1871 but not the other years.
I have his birth and baptism:

b. 29 Jan 1812 c. 12 Mar 1812 Independent Chapel, Highfield, Huddersfield

I think my Thomas married Ann WOODCOCK Jun Q 1840 Huddersfield and that the two listings Julie posted in #30 are your Thomas and mine. Seems your Anne can't be found so far in 1851.

Regards,

Dave