Help tracing Thomas B Kilner, Hudderfield -1881 census

[calliek]

Hey Julie,

How would I go about looking for Anne R's birth in 1819? I assume I can't use FreeBMD since it starts in 1837. I know I'm looking for parish records but do you have any good starting points?

EDIT- Found her!

Anne Richardson Bamforth
Christened
09 SEP 1818 Royston, Yorkshire, England
Parents William Bamforth and Mary Anna Richardsn

So she's even older than I have from previous info.

Death registration

Year 1897

Anne Richardson Kilner
Born abt 1819
Jan/Feb/Mar 1/4
District Northampton

Vol 3b
Page 53

 

[calliek]

Still plugging away at this- while searching for Thomas who married Anne R Bamforth I come up to another listing of that Carss family in A****** that lists his birth year as 1812. Which matches DaveHam9's Thomas and makes me even more anxious to get my hands on that marriage cert. I suck at waiting...sigh...

 

[calliek]

The marriage cert is here!! And I was right- my Thomas is descended from the the Carr house line!

At the parish church in the parish of Huddersfield in the county of York
25th of Sept 1839
Thomas Kilner age 26 Merchant of Carr House, Father Thomas Kilner, also a merchant
married
Anne Richardson Bamforth, age 21, lower Cudworth, Parish of Royston, father William Bamforth, gentleman

Dave I would say I've found your missing Thomas. Now I need to add all your info to mine!

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Calliek,

I'm so pleased you found your connection to Carr House. Well done. O0

 

[calliek]

Thanks Julie- I wouldn't have got this far without your assistance! And of course it creates a whole new batch of questions! I have no idea what Carr House even means so I guess I'll start there.

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Calliek,

I dont know what this is about but found this on the National Archives site at Kew.


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-2962407&j=1

 

[calliek]

So Carr house appears to be a place- small village? it's times like this that I realize how woefully ignorant I am of English geography and terminology.

I found this which has a Thomas Kilner of Castle gate, as a Woollen Cloth Manufrs.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Huddersfield/Huddersfield29Dry.html

 

[calliek]

Hey Julie, I don't know what that is either but it confirms Mary ANNA Richardson and also give me William's middle name and what appears to be another daughter, Sarah.

 

[juliejtp]

Calliek,

Have another look throught the Genuki link, there is a Thwaite and another Kilner listed.

 

[calliek]

Yeah I saw a William Kilner, a Joseph Kilner and also a Tolson and Kilner under Scribbling and Fulling Mills. And many Hirst's which is the maiden name of Harriot Kilner from Dave's tree. Looks like I'm in the right place!

I'd actually put the Kilner line on the backburner for now while waiting on the paperwork- didn't expect it to be so fast! I'm working on another branch of family at the moment and will be posting a request in the Scotland forum shortly, If your area of expertise extends there I'd love your help again!

 

[juliejtp]

Not quite for Scotland. But I'm sure there will be other members that can help you.

 

[calliek]

I suspect you might be the one to ask about the immigration to Canada info tho I have great info on the family in Scotland but can't find my great grandfather again until he marries in Canada. But I'll continue that in the other thread

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Calliek & Julie,

Well now.

Looks like I have an error in my tree and some work to do on my KILNER branch.

Congratulations. There is no doubt about the connection to the KILNERs of 'Carr House' now although it leaves me with more puzzles than I started with. Re the name, it does seem to be a place south of Ripponden and west of Huddersfield. The name crops up everywhere, such as Carr House gate, Bradford and Carr House, Water Lane, Halifax.

I've found this which is very interesting. It has lots of HIRSTs and KILNERs:

http://www.archive.org/stream/westridingelect00ridigoog/westridingelect00ridigoog_djvu.txt

Poll Book for an Election. This Election took place in consequence of the removal of Lord Morpeth to the House of Lords on the demise of his father, the Earl of Carlisle, who died on the 7th Oct., 1848.

162 HUDDER^FtfiLd V6lA^G DIS1*MCT.
Huddersfield Polling District 162
(names include)

Kilner George Hirst, Carr house 2
Kilner John Hirst, King street 1
Kilner Thomas, Carr house 2

I will get out all the stuff I have on the KILNER and HIRST families. Some more detective work is needed though.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello calliek,

I've looked some more and there is a Carr House in the ancient parish of Tickhill but I doubt that is the one where the family lived. Most, if not all, of the 12 children of Thomas & Harriot HIRST were baptised in the Independant Highfield Chapel in Huddersfield according to extracted IGI entries. I've read that the book is so tightly bound that not all the records made it on to LDS film. The chapel is in Huddersfield itself so I think Carr House is a residence not a village in some parish away from the town. Highfield is very close to the centre of Huddersfield, just off the ring road.

If you look at a map online, you will find Highfield in the area between A649 Trinity Street and A628 New North Road. Most of the area known as Highfield has over the years been swallowed up by Huddersfield Technical College around the areas of Trinity St and New North Rd and I'm almost sure that the old Chapel is now used as student accommodation.

There used to be a web site that had Huddersfield MI but I can't find the site now. Of the 12 children, I have only a few marriages and only a few deaths. I'm sorting through the census records to find the ones that no longer belong. I originally had my Thomas married in 1840 to Ann WOODCOCK and census listings for them, which I now have to discard.

I'll be back with more later.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello calliek,

From IGI: Baptism record for Thomas KILNER:

Thos. c. 3 Mar 1783 St Peter Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England
Father: Geo.

So no mention of his mother.

Also extracted marriage record from IGI:

Thomas KILNER & Harriet HIRST
13 Mar 1806 St Peter's Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England

They were living on the west side of Northgate which is now the A641.

1841 U.K census
Address – West Side, Northgate, Borough of Huddersfield
Agbrigg (Upper Division)
Thomas KILNER b. abt 1781 60 Merchant Yorkshire
Harriett KILNER b. abt 1791 50 Yorkshire
George KILNER b. abt 1816 25 Warehouseman Yorkshire
Harriet KILNER b. abt 1821 20 Yorkshire
Emma KILNER b. abt 1821 20 Yorkshire
Catherine KILNER b. abt 1827 14 Yorkshire
HIRST, Elizabeth F 60 1781 Yorkshire is Independant
+
1 servant

1851
HO107; Piece: 2295; Folio: 245; Page: 30
CP: Huddersfield
Town: Huddersfield
RD: Huddersfield
SRD: Huddersfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Address: Northgate
Thomas Kilner, head, widower, age 73, retired woollen merchant,
George Hirst Kilner, son age 37
Catherine G Kilner, dau age 24
Elizabeth Hirst, sister in Law, age 77, annuitant.
Charlotte Hodgson, servant age 17, b Durker Nr Wakefield
All born Huddersfield.

Death for Thomas:

Deaths Jun 1856
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 229
Deaths Mar 1858
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 230
Deaths Jun 1860
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 177

For Harriotte HIRST there is only a privately submitted IGI:

b. ? c. ? 25 Aug 1785 Huddersfield

Buried Independent Highfield, Huddersfield
Headstone 169: 28 Feb 1858 ? Died age 63 ?

I'd say that date is in error. I would say she died on 28 Feb 1849, but that would have to be confirmed.

Deaths Mar 1849
Kilner Harriet Huddersfield 22 275

A daughter who does not appear in IGI and not in any tree I've seen nor does the date of death match the 'female' KILNER entry that is in IGI.

Death of daughter of Thomas Kilner.
The Leeds Mercury (Leeds, England), Saturday, July 18, 1840; Issue 5561. (2138 words)
Same day, at the parish church, Huddersfield, by the Rev. T. Manning, W. J. Clarke, Esq, Surgeon, to Eliza, daughter of Thomas Kilner, Esq, of Carr House, Huddersfield.

So, Eliza is a mystery. It can't be this one:

Deaths Jun 1840
KILNER Elizabeth Sheffield 22 413

Regards,

Dave

 

[calliek]

Thanks so much Dave! I will fill all these details into my notes. Do you want any of Thomas and Anne's descendants for your tree?

Sorry for the late reply- I had to take a couple days away from the computer- this genealogy stuff can get rather addicting! I'm currently researching 4 different family lines and I was getting a bit overwhelmed. Oddly enough I'm having much better luck with the UK stuff than the Canadian records. I think that's partially due to people like yourself and Julie who amaze the hell out of me. I just wish the Canadian records were a bit more organized.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello calliek,

Did you get all the children of Thomas & Harriet HIRST from IGI? They were all baptised in the Highfield Independent Chapel. If not I can list them. One of them ended up in Canada! I don't know if you want the marriages and descendants of all of Thomas & Harriet's children or not. I stop at one generation if it's not a direct line so I didn't add the children of Thomas & Anne to my tree. I'm trying to keep it under 5000.

Harriet's parents are John & Ruth WRIGHT who married on 16 Sep 1782 St Peter's Huddersfield, Yorkshire, England.

Regards,

Dave

 

[calliek]

Dave, I did get them from your other thread thanks! I assume from your comments above that you didn't take the Kilner line any further than Thomas and Harriot's parents. Which is plenty for me for now!

I received the birth cert for William in the mail today and it's definitely my missing great-grandfather!

William Kilner born Dec 13 1882 ( not 1880 as family records indicated) in Horton, Bradford. Parents Thomas Bamforth Kilner and Mary Elizabeth (Thwaite). So we are Kilners, not the milkman's descendants. Thanks emeltee for pointing me in the right direction!

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello calliek,

Re the parents, I wish I could but at the moment I'm stuck. All I know is that Thomas' father is George and that Harriet's parents are John HIRST and Ruth WRIGHT. That's as far as I've been able to go back.

I don't know when John HIRST or spouse Ruth died. I don't know when George died or who and when he married. I don't even know when Thomas and his son Thomas died. All I can say is that from census listings it looks as though both died between 1851 and 1861 and that possibly it would be two of these three:

Deaths Jun 1856
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 229
Deaths Mar 1858
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 230
Deaths Jun 1860
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 177

Regards,

Dave

 

[calliek]

Hah! I never thought of that but of course you are probably right that one is the father and one is the son. I didn't bother to order a copy of any of the death certs because I didn't like the idea of paying for all 3 to potentially get one right but I may have to rethink that!