Help with Great Grandparents

[Jennimoor]

Hi all

I have been doing my family tree and have hit a wall and cant seem to get any further, im not overly experienced at this family research but have a few details but to no avail cant find any more.

My Great grandmother was Evelyn Minnie (Eva) Martin born 2Q 1894, Pancras according to the birth index record. She married Chase Avis in 4Q in 1913, Tunbridge, Kent, My grandmother was her first child, Minnie Evelyn born 1913 and according to her birth record, marriage record Avis was her surname but i have been told by a family member that she was born out of wedlock and took Chase's name after her mother married. I can find marriage records and 1939 census for Chase and also a death record but no sign of a birth record, he died at around the age of 52 in Kent and his birthdate according to records i have found so far seem to point to Nov 1888.

They had 5 other children and lived at Hawkwell Farm, Pembury, Kent as farmworkers.
Children are as follows
Harry Chase Avis 1915-1931
Violet I Avis 1921-2007
Jack Avis 1922-1989
Joan Avis 1927-1986
Eric Avis 1929-1996.

As i said my fathers mother was Minnie Evelyn born 1913 in Kent but family are unsure as to whether Chase was her biological father or not. The birth record i have found for Minnie only states her mothers maiden name and cant seem to find any other details. Is there any way i could find out if her birth was illegitimate or whether she was just born out of wedlock and Chase is her biological father?

Any help or tips on where to start would be greatly appreciated

 

[gibbo]

Minnie Evelyn born 1913 and according to her birth record

Im unable to find a birth reg. for Minnie. Do you have a record of birth for her and if so what name was she registered under? If it can be found her birth cert. could be of some help.

 

[Jennimoor]

Im unable to find a birth reg. for Minnie. Do you have a record of birth for her and if so what name was she registered under? If it can be found her birth cert. could be of some help.

Thanks for replying, her birth record I found on Ancestry gives the surname Avis, I also found her marriage record, 1039 census and death record along with records for her children. My Aunt, Minnie's daughter has told me that she believes she was born out of wedlock as Evelyn and Chase were married in the same year as Minnie was born.
Regards Jenni

 

[solidrock2]

Is this her ?

MARTIN, EVELYN no mmn - GRO Reference: 1913 D Quarter in TONBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 1680
Marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVD8-FT12
Who is this in 1939?
Ellen M Smith (Avis,Clarke) 1896 Warrington C.B. Lancashire 119 Alder Lane

 

[Jennimoor]

That's a record I havent come across before 🙂

Chase Avis died in 1942 so she remarried? Chase married Evelyn in 1913.

 

[solidrock2]

The marriage was in Dec. Q so was that birth for Evelyn . Have you got the exact date of the marriage the birth cert should show before.
FamilySearch has the mmn as Martin.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2F5Q-T9N

 

[gibbo]

Thanks for replying, her birth record I found on Ancestry gives the surname Avis, I also found her marriage record, 1039 census and death record along with records for her children. My Aunt, Minnie's daughter has told me that she believes she was born out of wedlock as Evelyn and Chase were married in the same year as Minnie was born.
Regards Jenni

What sort of birth record? Are you able to post what information was on that record please? I am guessing it may be a birth reg. index, where as the actual certificate will give further information. Sorry for all the questions.

 

[ptjw7]

The GRO has the birth as Martin with MMN blank which usually means illegitimate.
Tonbridge 02a 1680 same as Freebmd which has MMN as Martin.
Do you have the actual marriage date.

 

[Jennimoor]

I dont have the actual certificate of birth but the birth reg index gives the 4th Quarter and the year 1913, i have done another search since your last reply and come up with the same document although that states her birthname as Evelyn Martin where as all the family members i have spoken to have said that Evelyn was her middle name and not her first and that her birthdate was beginning of October which kind of matches the 1939 census record as that states the 5th October although the year on that is 1915.

In regards to the actual marriage date i have no idea of the actual date, details i have are from the civil registration marriage index, those details give the 4th quarter of 1913, volume 2a, page 1683, Tonbridge Kent

 

[ptjw7]

The reason I asked if you knew the actual dates is that if birth is after marriage then she is definately not an Avis. If the birth is before the marriage and she is Avis daughter then a cottection can be added.
Not foolproof I know but it does happen.
Peter

 

[Jennimoor]

so her birth and her mothers marriage are both in the same quarter of 1913, its been plaguing me for weeks as i can find more on Evelyn Martins side but nothing on Chase Avis, re parents etc, so frustraing

 

[ptjw7]

As far as Chase is concerned it will always be difficult not knowing his real name - I assume it may be Charles but why the Chase bit I cannot understand.
Mind you the marriage cert should have fathers name.
Unless you can find the parish record it costs £11 to get a copy all for one name!

Peter

 

[Jennimoor]

i have found a couple of records on ancestry for a Charles Avis, similar birth year, similar area although my Aunt who i spoke to is certain Chase was his name and not Charles, his marriage record and 1939 census show his name as Chase also

 

[Jennimoor]

I have also found 2 war records through ancestry showing his name as Chase Avis, he was a private in 43rd Battalion of Royal West Kent Fusiliers between 1914 and 1920

 

[gibbo]

Do any of these records state where Chase was born?

IF he filled out the marriage information correctly on his marriage cert. it should state his father's name and father's occupation.

 

[gibbo]

There are a few articles in the British newspaper archives, one where Chase got into trouble for not sending his kids to school and several articles on the death of Harry Chase Avis including a article on the inquest. [I can not get the full articles up as i have previously used my 3 free searches]

You have to register on the below link and get 3 free searches but after that you have to pay.

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
.

 

[Jennimoor]

There are a few articles in the British newspaper archives, one where Chase got into trouble for not sending his kids to school and several articles on the death of Harry Chase Avis including a article on the inquest.

You have to register on the below link and get 3 free searches but after that you have to pay.

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
.

I have the newspaper report on his son Harry Chase but havent seen the one about not sending his kids to school, i will take a look at that one thankyou for all your help so far

 

[Jennimoor]

Do any of these records state where Chase was born?

IF he filled out the marriage information correctly on his marriage cert. it should state his father's name and father's occupation.

I dont have a marriage cert to go by only what i have found through ancestry

 

[gibbo]

I dont have a marriage cert to go by only what i have found through ancestry

I hate suggesting to people to buy certificates cause they are so expensive but sometimes it might be the only thing to give some clues to continue on with if filled out correctly. This might be one of those times where it might be handy. I did check the newspapers for a marriage announcement as sometimes their parents are mentioned in those but couldnt find one.

 

[gibbo]

Published: Friday 04 July 1924
Newspaper: Kent & Sussex Courier
County: Kent, England
SCHOOL ATTENDANCE CASE. On the evidence of Mr. G. Whale, School Attendance Officer, Chase Avis, Lower Bitchet, Stone Street, was fined 10s. for failing to send his three children regularly to school.