Henry Owen JONES

[DaveHam9]

Hello,

The Sydney Morning Herald - Monday 26 September 1859 p.1
MARRIAGES
On Friday, the 23rd instant, by special license, at Newtown, by the Rev. Stephen Rabone, Mr. William Jones, of Braidwood, second son of the late Mr. Henry Owen Jones, of Newtown, to Emmeline, third daughter of the late Mr. John Hatton Flood, of Dublin, Ireland.

Death # 13807/1914 JONES WILLIAM - HENRY O - GOULBURN

I have no details about William's mother. William named his children:

George Henry - a draper
Ada Mary
William Francis Lewis - a music teacher

Monumental Inscriptions of Goulburn: Goulburn General Cemetery
William JONES, born Lancashire, England, 16 Sep 1836, died at Victoria House, Goulburn, 13 Aug 1914

I can't find a birth or baptism that matches the details in the MI. I can't find a marriage that fits for Henry Owen. Seems Henry was not using his middle name except perhaps here:

Deaths Sep 1843
JONES Henry Owen Wt. Derby 20 681

I have no info re siblings for William and I can't find him in shipping records. I can find 4x William but from Bedfordshire, Nottinghamshire, Middlesex and Herefordshire.

I know there are lots of William and Henry JONES in Lancs but I hope not too many William born about 1835 with father Henry alive in 1841. William was possibly a tailor later in life but I have no idea about his father Henry O.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello,

name: Teresa Jones
event: Census
event date: 1841
gender: Male ??
age: 1
birthplace: Lancashire
record type: Household
registration district: Liverpool
sub-district: Islington
civil parish: Liverpool
county: Lancashire

I'd like a look up please for the family in 1841.

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Hi Dave,

Class: HO107; Piece 559; Book: 27; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 37; Folio: 33; Page: 8; Line: 7

All called Jones

Henry 35 (Labourer)
John 12
Eliza 10
William 6
Teresa 1

Living in Birkett Street

Teresa's age does appear in the male column, but it's probably a mistake!

Josie

 

[josie7644]

Here is the Jones family in 1851...

• Class: HO107; Piece: 2176; Folio: 669; Page: 21

• Henry 48, Porter
• Eliza 20
• William 16
• Theresa 10 (daughter)
•
• Living at 7 Eldon Terrace, Liverpool

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thank you very much.

Out of about 50 William JONES born in Lancashire around that time I wonder if that is Henry Owen JONES and family.

Looks as though I'm stuck. I can't prove or disprove the date in the MI for William. No mother listed on the death reg for William and no proof yet that John (below) is a sibling and that therefore Henry's spouse was Grace:

DEATH
16087/1916 JONES JOHN - HENRY O - GRACE - NEWTOWN

What we need is John's age at death to be 87-91. Can't see a death or funeral notice in SMH.

Possible burial:
Rookwood Independent Methodist 2 0000426 JONES JOHN 13 Dec 1916

Two others it could be:

8991/1916 JONES JOHN 87 YRS PARRAMATTA PARRAMATTA
16829/1916 JONES JOHN THOMAS ASHFIELD


Theresa would be a good one to trace. Given her age in 1841 this is a possible:

Deaths Mar 1839
Jones Grace Liverpool 20 258


Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Marriages Jun 1856
ASTLEY Mary Bolton 8c 221
JONES Theresa Bolton 8c 221
PEARSON James Bolton 8c 221
Ratcliffe James Bolton 8c 221


groom's name: James Pearson
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace: Of Great Bolton
groom's age:
bride's name: Theresa Jones
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace: Of Great Bolton
bride's age:
marriage date: 07 Apr 1856
marriage place: Bolton-Le-Moors, Lancashire, England
groom's father's name: Joseph Pearson
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: Henry Jones
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status: Single
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status: Single
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M00736-9
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1966658
reference number: p 9 n 17

Does the census say Theresa was born in Liverpool?

Is there another Theresa born in Bolton before 1841 with father = Henry?

I can only find three deaths after 1851 for a Theresa JONES and all in London.

 

[DaveHam9]

name: Theresa Wood Jones
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 28 Feb 1840
baptism/christening place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Henry Jones
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Elizabeth Jones
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: I02048-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 93883
reference number: v 30 p 133

Mother is not Grace.

 

[DaveHam9]

I think it's time to go back to square one with what we know not what we assume.

 

[josie7644]

Hiya Dave,

Just looking at FreeBMD and found another Grace Jones death in Liverpool in the last Q of 1841, vol 20 page 184. If this is your ancestor, then where was she in the 1841 census? Maybe in hospital?

The only Theresa birth I can find in Liverpool in this time frame is Theresa Wood Jones, registered in the first quarter of 1840, vol 20, page 384.

More questions than answers!

I'll have a rummage!

Josie

PS missed your post #7!

 

[josie7644]

Hello Dave,

In 1841 and 1851, there seems to be only one Theresa Jones, born around 1840 and living in Liverpool, so maybe this is the Theresa Wood Jones born 1840, with parents Henry and Elizabeth.

Rechecked the two census returns and can confirm that in each one, it states that she was born in Liverpool.

Had a look on Freebmd for deaths of Elizabeth Jones in Liverpool, up to 1841 but there are too many to contemplate!

The Henry Owen Jones who died in West Derby in 1843 cannot be the same one who is the father of Theresa, because he is alive and well in 1851!

It’s possible that your William is not related to Theresa and that his father really is the one who died in 1843.

The fact that John also lived in Newtown and had a father called Henry O would (IMO) seem to suggest he is William’s brother.

So the next step is to try to find (in 1841) a William and a John with father Henry. Not easy!

Trawled through all the Williams born about 1836 and living in Liverpool in 1841! The only one with a Henry in the household was the one with Theresa!

There is an “unattached” William who seems to be with the Murphys in Gradwell Street.

Class: HO107; Piece 562; Book: 8; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 46; Folio: 11; Page: 15

So it seems, back to the drawing board!

Josie

 

[juliejtp]

Hi Dave,

An extracted marriage record for a Henry Jones to a Grace Hughes.

11 Jun 1833 - Saint Peter Church Street - Liverpool.

Edited. Just seen your other posting Dave with this marriage.

 

[josie7644]

Hi Dave,

An extracted marriage record for a Henry Jones to a Grace Hughes.

11 Jun 1833 - Saint Peter Church Street - Liverpool.

Great find, Julie!

Here is a picture of the church...

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Liverpool/Liverpool-Central/stpeter/stpeter.html

 

[josie7644]

Further to Julie's find, here is a little more info...

Henry Jones - (X), Labourer of This Parish
Grace Hughes - (X), Widow of This Parish
Witness: Richd Jones; Owen Williams

Married by Banns by: Oliver Ormerod, Curate
Register: Marriages 1833 - 1834, Page 50, Entry 148
Source: LDS Film 93919

 

[josie7644]

Further to Julie's find, here is a little more info...

Henry Jones - (X), Labourer of This Parish
Grace Hughes - (X), Widow of This Parish
Witness: Richd Jones; Owen Williams

Married by Banns by: Oliver Ormerod, Curate
Register: Marriages 1833 - 1834, Page 50, Entry 148
Source: LDS Film 93919

In view of the fact that one of the witnesses was called Owen Williams, this MAY be Grace's previous marriage...

Marriage date: 10 Apr 1823
Venue: Christ Church Hunter Street, Liverpool,
Groom: William Hughes - Mariner of Liverpool
Bride: Grace Williams - Spinster of Liverpool

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thank you very much. You have worked yourself into the position I've now accepted also. Yes, Theresa Wood seems to be the only one that fits and with mother Elizabeth that seems to rule out the family in 1841 & 1851 being mine.

William is the 2nd son of Henry O and it's probable that John is a brother. Also from the marriage notice it implies Henry was 'late of Newtown' so although they have not yet been found in shipping records it seems possible all three left England together. It hinges on being able to prove John is the older brother and that therefore Grace is the mother since no mother is listed on William's death reg.

The two earliest deaths in NSW after 1836.

2065/1875 JONES GRACE AGE UNKNOWN DIED SYDNEY SYDNEY
9064/1876 JONES GRACE OWEN ANN PARRAMATTA

My 3xG grandfather Charles FURNER arrived in 1838 or 1839 with a large family and they have not been found in shipping records so the JONES may not be found.

Nothing seems to be falling into place so I'm giving it a rest for a few weeks.

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Hi Dave,

Wouldn't it be great if you could find a newspaper report of the marriage of John Jones, first son of Henry Owen Jones?

That really would put the icing on the cake!

All the best,

Josie

 

[josie7644]

Hello again,

Just searching for Henry Owen Jones! Does this have any significance?

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/59758689?searchTerm=henry owen jones&searchLimits=

The date is Saturday 27th May 1854.

Acknowledgement to cp for the link to Trove!

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Yes, thanks. Also in The Empire.

V18542156 41A/1854 JONES HENRY AGE 37

If that is the reg and if the age is correct then we have a problem. Could just be the father of William but could not be the father of John.

I can't see the burial at A&G or Independent Rookwood. Curious that the Funeral notice does not mention the place of burial.

Seems 1854 is the earliest ref found so far in newspapers. Still no sign of them in shipping records. So no idea if they were in England in 1841 and or 1851 or not.

We still have this death to ponder:

Deaths Sep 1843
JONES Henry Owen Wt. Derby 20 681

I've found nothing in the English newspapers in the Gale Collection.


I've just looked at the number of John JONES marriages in NSW from 1842. :2fun:

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Just been calculating the date of Henry's birth - 1816-17! So the above links can't be right if the stated death age is correct!

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thanks for looking.

I though we'd give it a fresh start but it seems we just don't have enough to go on considering the number of JONES out there.

Henry JONES marriages in England and Wales 1834 +/- 2 136

Regards,

Dave