I'm puzzled by these two

[DaveHam9]

This one looks correct:

1841
HO107 Piece 571 Book /Folio 1/41 Page 11
Civil Parish: Manchester
County: Lancashire
Registration District: Manchester
Sub-RD: London Road
Address: Garratt Road/Brook Street
Rich'd Anderson 27 Upholsterer Y
William Anderson 17 Upholsterer Y
Tho's Anderson 15 Upholsterer Y


But how can this one be correct? There is no parish of Manchester in that RD until 1896 by genuki.

South Manchester Lancashire 1896 - 1916
Created 26.3.1896 out of the parishes of Hulme, Chorlton upon Medlock, Ardwick, West Gorton, Openshaw, and Rushulme

1841
HO107 Piece 580 Book/Folio 14/43 Page 28
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County: Lancashire
Registration District: Chorlton
Sub-RD: Chorlton Upon Medlock
ED: 28
Address: West Street
Robert Anderson M 25 Upholsterer Y
Eliza Anderson F 25 Dress Maker N

 

[Ellie7]

Chorlton Upon Medlock
(Grosvenor Street
Wesleyan Methodist) C088231 1824-1837
(Oxford Road Wesleyan
Methodist) C088221 1827-1837
(Rusholme Road Chapel
Independent) C088201 1826-1837
Own Parish

I thing Manchester grew because of the cotton industry and engulfed the villages around it.

Ellie

 

[stockpot]

The Enumerator's Schedule on the first page reads :-

COUNTY: Lancashire
HUNDRED: Salford
PARISH: Manchester
TOWNSHIP: Chorlton on Medlock (part)
BOROUGH OR TOWN: Manchester
WITHIN LIMITS OF PARLIAMENTARY BOROUGH OF: Manchester
WITHIN MUNICIPAL BOUNDARY OF: All Saints Ward
-----------------------------------------------------------
SUPERINTENENT REGISTRAR'S DISTRICT: Chorlton
REGISTRAR'S DISTRICT: Chorlton on Medlock
NUMBER OF ENUMERATOR'S DISTRICT: 28

Manchester is the ancient ecclesiastical parish. All Saints was a church built as the town of Manchester expanded early in the 19th century. (When the foundation stone of All Saints church was laid in 1819 it was said to be “within view of green fields”)

Hope that helps
Elaine

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Ellie.

The image for the 2nd one has City or Borough of Manchester with 'City' ruled through and Parish or Township of Chorlton Upon Medlock with 'Parish' ruled through.

The transcription has the parish as Manchester.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Elaine.

That would explain why the transcription has the parish as Manchester.

It would mean the parish was split across two RDs.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Elsewhere on genuki:

CHORLTON-UPON-MEDLOCK, a township, five chapelries, and a sub-district in Chorlton district, Manchester parish, Lancashire.

But this page shows no such parish until 1916.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/chorlton.html

 

[stockpot]

I think there is confusion between parish and registration district.

The present Manchester Cathedral is mainly Victorian but there has been a parish church on the site since 1215, see Manchester Cathedral on Wickipedia.

When registration districts were set up in 1837 the name Manchester was not used and instead Chorlton was used to cover several areas of south Manchester. I am not aware of any parish of "South Manchester". What was set up in 1916 was a new registration district.

http://www.manchestercathedral.org/history/archives
gives some interesting background to the growth of the parish of Manchester.

hope this helps
Elaine

 

[Ellie7]

As the Census are 1841 and the people would have likely been in Charlton in 1837 when it became part of Manchester, i would thing bapts were in Chorlton.


Ellie

 

[DaveHam9]

CHORLTON REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Lancashire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.1.1925 (to become Manchester South registration district).
Sub-districts : Ardwick, Barton, Chorlton upon Medlock, Didsbury, Gorton, Hulme, Openshaw, Rusholme, Stretford.

MANCHESTER REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Lancashire (1837-1925 and 1939-74), Greater Manchester (from 1974).
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished 1.1.1925 (to become part of Manchester North registration district).
Re-created : 1.4.1939 (out of Manchester North and Manchester South registration districts).

 

[stockpot]

I don't know whether you are familiar with the site

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

It can be more detailed than the normal BMD indexes as it gives the precise sub district and also the church in the case of a marriage. Also sometimes the mother's maiden name before 1912. However the coverage is patchy - just checked and my marriage is there but not my birth- a bit disconcerting!

Elaine

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Elaine.

Yes, I know of such sites. I got a copy of this marriage in my direct line from the County Register Office and not the GRO.

Yorkshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1854
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ASKHAM Mary E - BARRACLOUGH John Holy Trinity, Rothwell - Leeds CE109/C/181

Dave

 

[stockpot]

Don't know if you are interested but I found Richard & Robert, upholsterers, in 1851. They were born Preston.
Found their baptisms at St John Preston :
Richard 30 April 1813, Robert 3 Jan 1816. Both s.o. Elizabeth & Robert, an upholsterer.
Note there were two Robert Andersons bapt. at this church 3 Jan 1816, consecutive entries. One as above the other s.o. Elizabeth and Richard, silversmith.

Elaine

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Elaine.

I have those. Richard appears three times with three different IGI batch numbers. I think this is the marriage:

Robert ANDERSON & Elizabeth TAYLOR
3 Jan 1811 St John Preston, Lancashire
Batch: M007132

Not on Lancs OPC site

and this:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ANDERSON Robert MORRIS Eliza Eccles Parish St Mary's Salford C1/2/340

Can't find in FreeBMD

8th september 1839 at St Marys the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire
Robert Anderson - full age , Bachelor , Uphosterer of Pendleton
Eliza Morris - full age , spinster of Pendleton
Grooms father Robert Anderson, Upholsterer
Brides father Stephen Morris , Farmer
witness - Thomas Withnall, Thomas Gorse
married by C B St George

Dave

 

[rupert]

Thanks Elaine.

I have those. Richard appears three times with three different IGI batch numbers. I think this is the marriage:

Robert ANDERSON & Elizabeth TAYLOR
3 Jan 1811 St John Preston, Lancashire
Batch: M007132

Not on Lancs OPC site

and this:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ANDERSON Robert MORRIS Eliza Eccles Parish St Mary's Salford C1/2/340

Can't find in FreeBMD

8th september 1839 at St Marys the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire
Robert Anderson - full age , Bachelor , Uphosterer of Pendleton
Eliza Morris - full age , spinster of Pendleton
Grooms father Robert Anderson, Upholsterer
Brides father Stephen Morris , Farmer
witness - Thomas Withnall, Thomas Gorse
married by C B St George

Dave

Couldn't see it either.

In case you don't have the marriage image.

Rupert

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Rupert.

It's one not far off a direct line.

Dave

 

[horse]

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ANDERSON Robert MORRIS Eliza Eccles Parish St Mary's Salford C1/2/340

Can't find in FreeBMD

8th september 1839 at St Marys the Virgin, Eccles, Lancashire
Robert Anderson - full age , Bachelor , Uphosterer of Pendleton
Eliza Morris - full age , spinster of Pendleton
Grooms father Robert Anderson, Upholsterer
Brides father Stephen Morris , Farmer
witness - Thomas Withnall, Thomas Gorse
married by C B St George

Dave

Checking the names separately there is this for Robert, 4 males and 3 females listed, missing female could be Eliza Morris

Marriages Q3 1839
ANDERSON Robert
BARLOW Anne
BROOKS Peter
EDMONDSON Clough
LONGWORTH Robert
Peters Esther
TAYLOR Alice
Barton &c
20, 92

You may want to check HERE and HERE..

Geoff

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Geoff.

The image is a typed page and very clearly 20 92 and it's been transcribed twice.


Eliza Morris c. 14 Apr 1816 Great Budworth, Cheshire
Stephen Morris & Mary
CPR database gives the abode/residence for Eliza's birth as Witton in the parish of Gt Budworth.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Marriages Sep Qtr 1839
MORRIS Eliza Barton &c. 10 92
MORRIS Eliza Kensington 3 183
MORRIS Eliza Ann Hatfield 6 679
MORRIS Elizabeth Worthing 7 607
MORRIS Elizabeth Llanelly 26 701
MORRIS Elizabeth Liverpool 2 164
MORRIS Elizabeth Liverpool 20 164
MORRIS Elizabeth Pwllheli 27 391
MORRIS Elizabeth Bristol 11 153

It has also been transcribed twice - it's in upper case.

Again the image is a typed page and clearly recorded as 10 92.

 

[horse]

Yeah, no doubt on the image, just Eliza missing.

Eccles is in the Barton RD..

Geoff

 

[horse]

Marriages Sep Qtr 1839
MORRIS Eliza Barton &c. 10 92
MORRIS Eliza Kensington 3 183
MORRIS Eliza Ann Hatfield 6 679
MORRIS Elizabeth Worthing 7 607
MORRIS Elizabeth Llanelly 26 701
MORRIS Elizabeth Liverpool 2 164
MORRIS Elizabeth Liverpool 20 164
MORRIS Elizabeth Pwllheli 27 391
MORRIS Elizabeth Bristol 11 153

Ah! They have the 10 & 20 mixed up :biggrin:

Geoff