• Do you love Genealogy? Why not write for us? we're looking for volunteers to write articles for Family history. Please contact us for further information.

Is someone up for a challenge??

Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#1
Hi folks,

Please bear with me as this is my first post on this forum and I'm not sure if I'm in the right place!

Ok, here goes if someone can conquer this I will eat my hat!:)

I have John Thomas Webb b.1847 or 1857 (this is another query!!) in Great Bolton, Lancashire. He is married to Elizabeth Lawrenson and they lived with the in-laws in Preston see RG11 pice 4232 fol 73 p.38. The date of birth is a query because on this census his birth year works out at 1847 but I found his Navy records on the National Archives and it stated he was born in Grt Bolton in 1857! I have only managed to find John T Webb in this 1881 census before that he just disappears!

I am trying to go back a generation and find John Thomas's parents but I have hit a brick wall, in fact, it's more of a mountain! Other people on another forum have tried to help but no joy, I just find bits of info on him. There is no marriage for John and Eliz Webb either, so that's another mystery. I have his eldest child's birth cert - Margaret Webb and everything seems correct on that, also got the b/cert for his son John Thomas Lawrenson Webb, again all ok on that one too.

Can anyone help me go back another generation and find his parents, where was he as a child? I know he died 1890 in Salwick, Preston which is where he worked as a Railway Signalman.

I can't visit Kew to search through the Navy records or Railway records. I am a carer for an elderly person who depends on me for everything.

Please help someone, I just despair.:(

Thanks in advance,
Elaine.
 

benny1982

Loyal Member
Staff member
Moderator
Posts
5,287
Likes
115
Location
Norwich
#2
Hi Elaine

Have you already tried this possible birth?

John Thomas Webb 1847 Jan-Feb-Mar Chorlton Lancashire Ref 20 318.

This seems the likeliest entry.

Do you know when he joined the Navy?

Ben
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#3
Hi Ben,

Yes, I did consider the John T Webb at Chorlton I found him in a census but I can't be sure that is him because I have no idea of his parent's names. It is a possibility but I have no evidence.

The only records I have for the Navy is as follows:

John Thomas Webb dob 16th April 1857 Great Bolton, Lancs.

He served on the Sultan and Black Prince 1876-1878. It states his trade as a Musician and he had a scar/wound/mark showing the letter "D". I think when he left the Navy he then went onto become a railway signalman at Salwick where he eventually moved into the Railway Cottages with Elizabeth and children.

If I could find a marriage then that would be brilliant as it may give his father's name/address but no luck with this - help!
The only marriage I can find is John Webb - Eliz Robinson (does this sound like Lawrenson if the Registrar misheard the name?) dec qtr 1879 Fylde area. This would fit in nicely with the birth of the first child and the area is correct.

Any ideas or advice most appreciated.

Thanks again.
Elaine.
 

benny1982

Loyal Member
Staff member
Moderator
Posts
5,287
Likes
115
Location
Norwich
#4
Hi Elaine

I have searched some Webb's born in Bolton and Great Bolton in the 1861 census and found a Thomas Webb aged 13, born in Bolton living at Great Bolton, a Roller Turner At Foundary with parents William and Alice.

He could have been known as Thomas Webb.

Ben
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#6
Hi Ben,

Yes that's a possibility I suppose but I don't think I'm ever going to find any real evidence am I? It's always going to be a guess, which is really bugging me. I just don't know how to proceed with this. Why is there a difference with the dob 1847 or 1857? I'm inclined to go with 1857 as that is on the Navy records and is more nearer to his wife's, Elizabeth's age. The 1881 census could have been transcribed wrong.

I just don't know what to think anymore???? I might never get any evidence. I think I might have to put this one to sleep. Told you it was a mountain didn't I?;)

Thanks
Elaine.
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#7
Just seen your thread on the marriage abroad!

Yes, that's an idea, I will have a look on the website, although I've never traced marriage's abroad before.

Good thinking Ben!

Thanks again,
Elaine.
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#9
Well, I've searched through the marriages abroad but zilch again! I tried ALL records just to be on the safe side. Worth a try, shame I didn't hit on something.

I'm sure this elusive John T Webb doesn't want to be found as a child!:rolleyes:

Thanks anyway Ben,

Elaine.
 

benny1982

Loyal Member
Staff member
Moderator
Posts
5,287
Likes
115
Location
Norwich
#10
Hi Elaine

Shame. It is a possibility that they never actually married, or the entry has been misindexed or even accidentally omitted from the registers. It might be an idea to try parish records at the local records office.

Ben
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#11
Hi Ben,

Yes I will search through the Patish Records. I've got nothing to lose have I?

Fortunately, my local records office is not too far so I will try and get there next week.

Thanks for your help and advice.

Best wishes

Elaine.

P.S. I know your name do you frequent another forum?
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#13
Aahhh, thought I knew you! Yes, I think I have spoken (so to speak) to you before on BritGen. Think it was about my illegitimacy success with my g/g/grandfather, I found his real father. Don't know if you remember?

Well, this Webb nightmare is my husband's tree and even some of the mods on BritGen have not been able to solve the problem. I give them all credit though they have tried their best as does everyone on these brill forums. I wish I was as experienced as some of them!:)

Ok, I will keep you informed if I ever solve this mystery.

Thanks Ben,

Elaine.
 

benny1982

Loyal Member
Staff member
Moderator
Posts
5,287
Likes
115
Location
Norwich
#14
Hi Elaine

If your search through the parish records do draw a blank then you can send off for that Elizabeth Robinson 1879 marriage. Lawrenson could have been misheard or mistanscribed as Robinson. At least you know that Elizabeth Lawrensons father was Thomas.

Ben
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#15
Hi Ben,

Yes I am one step ahead of you and I decided to ring Blackpool Registrars to see if they would do a search for me. I gave them all the details of the marriage cert and they asked me for the occupation of John Webb so they could perhaps match up the details. They have been brilliant and said they would only take my money if it was a very near match with occupation etc but if not they wouldn't charge me. This was Friday when I spoke to them so I'm hoping to hear either tomorrow or Tuesday. Fingers crossed........

I was just thinking about Parish records the other day, and I'm not sure if I've already searched for marriages?? I say I'm not sure because I've been that many times I've forgotten what I've done and not done!:eek: Think I should have made a note of it! It does ring a bell though searching for J Webb's marriage, I can't have found anything or else everyone on the forums would know about it - I would be jumping for joy!!:)

I had a 'living' relative email me via Brit-Gen yesterday about my own tree, I was totally gobsmacked because it was my immediate line! Don't know if you've heard of him he's called Dogsbody. He is the son of my G/dads brother. I was overjoyed to say the least, I just wish he would hurry and reply back to my email as I've asked him loads of questions!!
Thanks again Ben,
Elaine.
 

Smee

Well-known member
Posts
108
Likes
0
Location
Rotorua
#16
Hi Elaine

You stated that John Thomas Webband Elizabeth Lawrenson were married before the 1881 Census then disappeared. I was looking at the details for thier sons birth, Joh Thomas Lawrenson Webb and in the Free BDM it states the district as Fylde in Lancashire, of course in the census it says Salwick.

In the Free BDM i looked for his father and i found a John Webb died aged 42 in Fylde Sept 1890, the age works out, and as i don't actually know much about Death Certificates in the UK, maybe his parents names are on that? Also if you could find out where he was buried in Salwick maybe someone could do a look for the headstone, on their it might say his parents names?

Just a thought.

Claire
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#17
Hi Claire,

Thanks for trying to help me with this. I did find the death cert for John Thomas Webb but unfortunately UK death certs don't name the parents and they give very little info on the origins of the person. Just the basics like cause of death, date, residence at time of death etc. So that was a no go!

I don't live that far from Salwick, and believe me my hubby and I have spent hours searching EVERY graveyard but no luck. Then I did eventually find his burial in Preston Cemetery in an UNMARKED grave. So again, another brickwall. I'm really not having much success with this line, it's so frustrating:mad:

As I mentioned to Ben in an earlier thread, there is a marr/cert for 1879 Fylde area for John Webb and Eliz Robinson, I was hoping the Registrar might have misheard Robinson for Lawrenson!! Long shot I know, but the rest of the info is correct, date, area etc. I contacted Blackpool Registrars who deal with Fylde area and they are going to do a search for me. They have been really helpful, so I'm just waiting to hear from them now. Fingers crossed.......

Thanks Claire for helping, I appreciate everyone's ideas.

Best wishes
Elaine.
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#18
Hi folks,

Well latest update on this is that I received the marriage cert for John Webb and Elizabeth Robinson today. I think the Registrar must have had a hearing problem or it was a clerical error. I'm pretty sure this is the correct marriage certificate as the father of the bride is named Thomas LAWRENSON!! YIPPEEE breakthrough at last!!

Trouble is now I have another problem. I want to go back another generation on John Webb's side. His father was named as John Webb (decd) and occupation stated - Private 66th regiment. I've searched for deaths on the army records for him but nothing. I know TNA at Kew will have details but I am unable to visit. Can anyone suggest anything else I could do in the meantime?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Elaine.
 

Smee

Well-known member
Posts
108
Likes
0
Location
Rotorua
#19
hi

Is there any chance that the place where the army records are kept would send you a copy via snail mail. That is hwat we have to do in New Zealand, though we have a cost as well.

I presume that you know the CWGC Website, i know this site only records the army casulties of the 1st and 2nd world war, however they do have a help section and may they could point you in the right direction to getting information another way.

Claire
 
Posts
14
Likes
0
Location
lancashire
#20
Hi Claire,

No I don't know that site you mentioned but I'm not well up on Army stuff!

I searched for deaths on A.........y site but didn't find anything. At The National Archives you have to search yourself or pay someone to do it for you. Which is what I think I may have to do. I tried searching online but again didn't find anything. It may be that John Webb senior died after leaving the army but I just don't know. At least I've made a small breakthrough!

Thanks for your help.
Elaine.
 

Similar threads

Top