Isle of Man?!

[Dhdrounding]

I may have posted this on the wrong thread as I was umming and ahhing for a while, is it English? Is it Irish? Other? No idea!

Sorry if I picked wrong!

I am trying to find my manx roots. My second great grandmother Margaret Callin came from Peel to England sometime between 1871 - 1881. In the 1881 census she is working as a servant at a house in England.

I'm all in a fluster about when she was born. I have found the 1939 English census which states her birthday was 21/08/1850 however I have found a baptism record which says she was baptised 03/02/1854. It would be unusual (I'm guessing!?) to have such a gap between birth and baptism in them days. It could be that the 1939 is incorrect as my grandma has written in her photo album from when she was younger that Margaret died in 1946 aged 92.

The plot thickens further as Margaret is in both the 1881 census in England and the 1881 Isle of Man census with her mother, father, brother and two lodgers, which surely can't be possible as they were on the same day. I feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall with researching this side.

I know Margaret had a sister named Annie who came to England a few years before Margaret to work and ended up marrying Margaret's husbands dad!

My grandma has some photos of which she has told me that her dad's cousin (who I would assume to be Margaret Callin's sisters children) was named Frances and she married a man named Bert/Burt Faragher and together they had 4 children (that I have been told of), Albert, Dora, Eva and Jean. My grandmother was born in 1929 so I assume they were around the same age if not a bit older. Grandma tells me that Frances had a sister named Jane who never married. Grandma has dementia so unfortunately I can't take everything as gospel anymore.

I don't know where everyone fits in and I don't know where to go from here.
Please can someone point me in the right direction?

Danielle

 

[emeltee]

I'm presuming that the baptism record you have found has her as the daughter of John and Margaret? This cannot be the correct Margaret Callin as she can be traced certainly as far as the 1891 Census. In each Census she is with her family and is single, including the 1891 Census. Do you have the correct surname?

Do you have a ref for the 1881 Census when you say she was in England as I cannot find her at all.

Finally who did she marry, when and where?

Emeltee

 

[p.risboy]

I cannot find her in any Census in Ancestry.

Don't get hung on the dates of Baptisms, for year of birth. They can occur from a day old, to adulthood.
I have family members baptised from one week old, to 6 siblings being baptised on the same day, and 11 years between first and last. Another baptised a week before her marriage. These all occurred well into civil registration.
Baptisms are, what they are, it's never the date of birth.

Steve.

 

[emeltee]

Is she the Maggie Callan who married Edwin Fisher Jun 1881 Dewsbury 9b 872?

If she is then the first thing you need to do is get the marriage certificate which will give you, hopefully, her father's name and occupation which will give you a starting point to find the family in the Isle of Man.

Between 1881 and 1911 her age varies quite a bit however I cannot seem to find a birth/baptism for her at all.

Emeltee

 

[Dhdrounding]

I'm presuming that the baptism record you have found has her as the daughter of John and Margaret? This cannot be the correct Margaret Callin as she can be traced certainly as far as the 1891 Census. In each Census she is with her family and is single, including the 1891 Census. Do you have the correct surname?

Do you have a ref for the 1881 Census when you say she was in England as I cannot find her at all.

Finally who did she marry, when and where?

Emeltee

Hi Emeltee
I struggled at first too she is registered in the 1881 census as 'Maggie Callan'

Maggie Callan
Age
27
Estimated Birth Year
abt 1854
Relationship to Head
Servant
Gender
Female
Where born
St Martins, Isle of Man, Isle of Man
Civil parish
Mirfield
County/Island
Yorkshire
Country
England
Street Address
Back Lane
Occupation
General Servant
Registration district
Dewsbury

She married Edwin Fisher in Dewsbury in Apr 1881.

I wondered the same RE: the census? I don't know much about the family just that she had a sister named Ann/ie. Annie Callan/Callin married Abraham Fisher 27/09/1880 in Dewsbury.

 

[emeltee]

I still think your best bet would be to get hold of her marriage certificate to find her father's name.

Civil Registration for births in the Isle of Man did not start until 1878 so you are reliant on baptismal records and if she wasn't baptised you won't find any details. At least if you have her father's name, or her mother's you will have something to look for in the Censuses.

Emeltee

 

[Dhdrounding]

I still think your best bet would be to get hold of her marriage certificate to find her father's name.

Civil Registration for births in the Isle of Man did not start until 1878 so you are reliant on baptismal records and if she wasn't baptised you won't find any details. At least if you have her father's name, or her mother's you will have something to look for in the Censuses.

Emeltee

Thank you! I will do that.
I don't take other trees on Ancestry as gospel however a lot have Annie's father as John Callan and mother as Jane. However Margaret isn't a sibling so I don't believe it to be correct, it's a tale Grandma's told me for years lol

Thanks again

Danielle

 

[Dhdrounding]

Hi Emeltee,

I have Annie and Abraham's marriage certificate, it says her father is John Callen and that he's a farmer. He was still alive at the time of their marriage in March 27th 1880

 

[emeltee]

I could be going off on a tangent here but looking at sister Annie in the Censuses one of the places of birth she gives is Kirk Santon. The following baptisms for Santon, parents John and Jane (Walkiton/Walketon/Walkinton) are on familysearch

Christian Callin 1844
Ann Callin 1846
Ellen 1854
Eliza Jane 1856
William 1859
Isabella 1861
Frances Ann 1863
William Andrew 1868

There is a nice little gap between Ann 1846 and Ellen 1854 which would fit Margaret. If this is her family then she wasn't baptised for whatever reason.

Emeltee

 

[Dhdrounding]

I could be going off on a tangent here but looking at sister Annie in the Censuses one of the places of birth she gives is Kirk Santon. The following baptisms for Santon, parents John and Jane (Walkiton/Walketon/Walkinton) are on familysearch

Christian Callin 1844
Ann Callin 1846
Ellen 1854
Eliza Jane 1856
William 1859
Isabella 1861
Frances Ann 1863
William Andrew 1868

There is a nice little gap between Ann 1846 and Ellen 1854 which would fit Margaret. If this is her family then she wasn't baptised for whatever reason.

Emeltee

That's so strange isn't it. Although I've stumbled across their census' and there's a Margaret Kelly on there who would be born around 1850. She is listed as a neice. I've traced her census' and in 1881 she is living with her 2 year old son in IOM so don't think this is her.

Incase I've traced it wrong, Margaret would have had to be baptised before she could marry would she? Or would they not ask due to her moving from IOM? Seems a strange carry on.

 

[emeltee]

Not sure about the having to be baptised before you can marry. I suppose it may depend upon where the marriage took place, whether the question of baptism came up and what the answer was. Perhaps the answer was Yes because Margaret presumed she had been baptised, after all who remembers the actual event of their baptism. It is also possible that the Vicar just missed her off the Register.

Emeltee

 

[Dhdrounding]

Potentially. But too much of a coincidence to not be on any of the census' aswell.

 

[Dhdrounding]

Had another look this aft.
Found a Margaret Callen aged 12 who is a servant in Malew, Isle of Man in the 1861 census. It says approx. year of birth 1849.

Not sure if this is too much of a coincidence. Will try trace her. If this is her this could potentially explain why she isn't in the census?

 

[Ellie7]

There were so many parents not having issue bapts. after 1855 that some churches made it a condition when they were asked to marry them in church.

Ellie

 

[Ellie7]

https://www.gov.im/categories/births-deaths-and-marriages/records-held/#accordion



Ellie

 

[Ellie7]

Margaret
Last name
Callin
***
Female
Birth year
-
Baptism year
1849
Baptism date
07 Jan 1849
Baptism place
Malew, St Mark's, Isle of Man
Father's first name(s)
William
Father's last name
Callin
Mother's first name(s)
Elizabeth
Mother's last name
Gale
Place
Malew, St Mark's
County
Isle of Man
Country
Ise of Man
Source
Isle of Man Baptisms 1598-1950


Ellie

 

[Dhdrounding]

There were so many parents not having issue bapts. after 1855 that some churches made it a condition when they were asked to marry them in church.

Ellie

Thanks Ellie,

I do find it hard to believe they would have so many children and not baptise one of them though, I will get Margaret's marriage certificate and hope it provides some answers!