James HARRIS & Doris Elizabeth HILL

[DaveHam9]

Birth 444/1902 HARRIS JAMES - JOHN WILLIAM - ELLIS AMY FLORENCE - COTTESLOE

Birth 7431/1905 HILL DORIS ELIZABETH Mother HILL ALICE MAUD MARY - BUNBURY

Marriage 139/1924 HARRIS JAMES Male HILL DORIS Female PERTH


??
Death 24/1946 HARRIS DORIS Female MOORA

James died 1975

72 05/01/1975 BASSENDEAN
Cremated at Karrakatta

Having problems finding them together in the rolls.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50348679
The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954) Fri 28 Jun 1946 Page 1 Family Notices
DEATHS
HARRIS (Doris).-In loving memory
of our dear sister-in-law and aunty,
who passed away, suddenly, on June 11
at Dawallinu. Inserted by Mabel and
Jack Harris and family.
We will always remember you smiling.

Older brother John.

Marriage 51/1916 HARRIS JOHN Male NORTON MABEL Female FREMANTLE

 

[DaveHam9]

'doris elizabeth harris' and 'mrs doris harris' no hits in Trove.

'doris harris' returns only hits for a Miss Doris Harris.

No births 1924 - 1932.

 

[DaveHam9]

Marriage 1916 Froome Henry J Male Hill Alice M M Female Wellington 68

James & Doris had 5 sons and 2 daughters plus two others who must still be living.

Still can't see them together in the rolls.

 

[helvi]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50348679
The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954) Fri 28 Jun 1946 Page 1 Family Notices
DEATHS
HARRIS (Doris).-In loving memory
of our dear sister-in-law and aunty,
who passed away, suddenly, on June 11
at Dawallinu. Inserted by Mabel and
Jack Harris and family.
We will always remember you smiling.

Older brother John.

Marriage 51/1916 HARRIS JOHN Male NORTON MABEL Female FREMANTLE

I am pretty sure Jack Harris represented WA as Senator 1947- 59 (excluding 1951-53).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harris_(Australian_politician)

He was Christened as John but known as Jack, like his father & grandfather (& incidentally, his granddaughter). He is buried/ has a plaque in the Karrakatta cemetery in Perth facing a magnificent ghost gum.

He became a "pen pal" of my grandmother in Wales in 1917 while visiting relations as a solider. She was his "cousin". They corresponded until his death nearly 60 years later & her son visited his family in WW2.

His line ties in with the Harriers or Harris / Powell tread explored elsewhere through his grand(?) father, another John Harris who left Britton Ferry/Neath in 1864 with a letter of recommendation from Jane Bowen (nee Harris) to a Welsh steel producer in the US called David Thomas form his employment in the Thomas steel works in Catasaqua [near Allentown & part of the Allentown/Bethlehem conurbation on the Lehigh Valley] in Pennsylvania

 

[DaveHam9]

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

Yes.
Engineering Blacksmith/Politician
John Harris
Senator for Western Australia
In office
1 July 1947 – 28 April 1951
In office
1 July 1953 – 30 June 1959
Born 3 December 1890
Sydney, New South Wales
Died 5 October 1974 (aged 83)
Nationality Australian
Political party Australian Labor Party
Occupation Blacksmith


Seems to be no source to confirm what year John left for America. Some say late 1867 or early 1868.

I've also not tied Jane Bowen into the family yet.

Also some say family travelled back to Wales in 1881 so they should be on 1880 US census but not found.
The family is on the 1881 census in Wales.

Also can't find when John and Martha and family arrived in Australia.

Dave

 

[helvi]

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

Yes.
Engineering Blacksmith/Politician
John Harris
Senator for Western Australia
In office
1 July 1947 – 28 April 1951
In office
1 July 1953 – 30 June 1959
Born 3 December 1890
Sydney, New South Wales
Died 5 October 1974 (aged 83)
Nationality Australian
Political party Australian Labor Party
Occupation Blacksmith


Seems to be no source to confirm what year John left for America. Some say late 1867 or early 1868.

I've also not tied Jane Bowen into the family yet.

Also some say family travelled back to Wales in 1881 so they should be on 1880 US census but not found.
The family is on the 1881 census in Wales.

Also can't find when John and Martha and family arrived in Australia.

Dave

Hi,

I do not have access to my records at the moment but based on my recollection I have these observations:

1. 1867 or 68 seems late. I have a copy of the letter and think it was more like 1864. Remember, the Civil War ended in 1865, demand for steel was at a peak early in the war and only picked up again after reconstruction started. 1867 & 8 would put his arrival at a slump period. There was also a reference in one of David Thomas's letters to his niece in Wales about how that John (aka Jack) Harris had stated & was getting on, which I think is more in the 1867-8 range. Sorry not to have evidence to upload in support just now.

I went to Catasaqua PA, where Thomas had his works, and had a good few hours with the head of the local historical society there talking about steel production in the Civil War. David Thomas wasn't just trying to make profit from the war, he wanted the north to triumph as Republican of non Conformist background.

2. The family came back before 1881, They hadn't stayed long (which I put down to the lull in demand for steel). John was gone by 1881, Martha followed with they boys, 1881 was an awful winter in S Wales. The economy stalled & people in other industries struggled. I can't imagine John would have put up with his skills not being in use when they were in demand elsewhere in the world. My father told me he had an offer to help set production up in Parramatta somewhere & left because the money was good.

I've seen a reference to the family in Graiggarw on this site. I better check the date out. I remember looking at this address (& visiting the site) before because it is outside the area where I would have expected the Harries to go - ie not Britton Ferry or Cadoxton, nor even Aberavon nor Ystalyfera where they had family connections but towards the Swansea valley where none of the clan stayed. Their residence there had many families from lots of places so it seemed like a works barracks or low rent/convenient short term place i.e they were not back in their home patch with known employers. I don't think they intended to stay having been away or it was too tough.

 

[helvi]

Hi,

I do not have access to my records at the moment but based on my recollection I have these observations:

2. The family came back before 1881, They hadn't stayed long (which I put down to the lull in demand for steel). John was gone by 1881, Martha followed with they boys, 1881 was an awful winter in S Wales. The economy stalled & people in other industries struggled. I can't imagine John would have put up with his skills not being in use when they were in demand elsewhere in the world. My father told me he had an offer to help set production up in Parramatta somewhere & left because the money was good.


Dave,

I see it was you who picked up the Graig(garw) reference in the 1881 in a post on 31 May 2014. I was wrong, John IS still in Wales on the census day 3 April 1881,

1881
RG11 Piece 5353 Folio 112 Page 76
Civil Parish: Clase
County: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration District: Swansea
Sub-RD: Llangyfelach
Address: Graig
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Occupation Birthplace Disability
John HARRIS Head Mar M 37 Iron Worker (Baller) Skewen, Glamorgan, Wales
Martha HARRIS Wife Mar F 32 Britton Ferry, Glamorgan, Wales
John HARRIS Son M 14 (Iron Worker) Britton Ferry, Glamorgan, Wales
Evan HARRIS Son M 12 (Iron Worker) Britton Ferry, Glamorgan, Wales
Bertie HARRIS Son M 6 Scholar America


Arrived in Sydney:
HARRIS Martha 35 and son North 1883 2142
HARRIS Bertie 8 and mother North 1883 2142
HARRIS John 17 North 1883 2142
HARRIS Evan 15 North 1883 2142
Departed Plymouth 22 Sep 1883 Arrived 24 Dec 1883
Single Women
Martha 35 Domestic Servant Glamorgan CofEng Yes
Bertie 8 School America No

Martha is married but for some reason is listed under 'Single Women' and not under 'Family with spouse in colony' or under other headings.

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks for the details.

A lot of the shipping records have not been found.

John and Martha not found yet in 1913 Electoral roll.

There was a tree from another descendant and I copied the bit to my tree re "late 1867 or early 1868" but don't know the basis for that.

How can Jane be Jane Bowden in 1864?

Marriages Sep Qtr 1866 Neath 11a 681
BOWEN Daniel & HARRIS Jane

Dave

 

[helvi]

Hi Dave

You must be right about Jane Bowen's name being Harris in 1864. I am going from memory rather than files of searches. I think of her as Bowen as there are so many Janes and Jane Harrises .

I hope to get access to my files at the end of January. Perhaps a scan of the letter would help. A genealogist called David Harris obtained it or a copy of it in about 1968 from a lady in Wales (living somewhere on the Neath Abbey /Cadoxton side of the Neath valley (west). It was with a batch of letters DT wrote to Jane Bowen and some other interesting things. It was then taken by hand to the US, we do not know how it returned.

My father talked about this so my enquiries started as a way to give him more to talk about. For instance, how my own sister came to be christened Jane! One thing he said was the letter of recommendation would have been written by Jane's father to David Thomas personally and a friend. My father met senator Jack's father (is that John Harris*?, its confusing) when he visited the family his ship docked in Fremantle in 1945.

David Harris sent copies of these interesting letter to me and another genealogist from the Harris line in WA. She posted a website for awhile. We also had photos of senator John (Jack) Harris's family pre WW1 and of his father John Harris* as an Aus solider in South Wales. (Senator Jack was also a soldier as Wikipedia shows. ) I met my genealogist friend in WA and visited more Harris clan in Dalwallinu including an uncle called John Harris. The genealogist to referred to John Harris* as "Silly John" because he was headstrong at times.

I'll try to find my copies so any mis-recollections of mine can be put right.

Philip

 

[helvi]

Hi Dave

The text of the letter of recommendation of John Harris to the steel maker David Thomas from Jane Harris (nee Bowen) is attached with a photograph of Jane. It was dated 7 December 1867 not earlier as I said. You and you source of the tree were correct. I'll put in a copy of a photograph found in my grandmother's things thought to be of a Harris (identified by a lifelong neighbour) in an unknown location outside the UK (based on comment on the back "the two next to me are from Bridgend") possibly Aus or USA.

Regards & HNY

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Philip and all the best for the New Year to you too.

Dave