James John WALL

[DaveHam9]

James John WALL born 1868 Greenwich, Kent, England - parents Charles Robert Wall & Emma Spry Stephens


Died South Africa 1919 ???

Thanks,

Dave

 

[gortonboy]

theres this chap,,,,cant prove its the same one as yet,,,,but might explain the South Africa connection? Are you trying to find his actual death,,,or the reason he was in South Africa ?

First name(s) James John
Last name Wall
Service number(s) -
Rank Bearer
Regiment Natal Volunteer Ambulance Corps
Literary references The National Archives WO127. Nominal rolls colonial units.
Units -
Casualty details -
Casualty notes -
Casualty source -
Gazzetteer -
Country Great Britain
Record set Anglo-Boer War records 1899-1902

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanls GB.

Trying to prove it's this one:

Births Mar 1868
Wall James John Greenwich 1d 821

1871
RG10 Piece 754 Folio 101 Page 6
Civil Parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County: Kent
Registration District: Greenwich
Address: Hyde Place, Greenwich
Charles Wall 38 Commercial Clerk London
Emma Wall 34 Portsmouth
Robert Wall 8
William Wall 5
James Wall 3
Ernest Wall 1
all children born Greenwich

Births Jun 1874
WALL Dudley Charles Greenwich 1d 882


James John Wall Bachelor Greenwich Kent England Storekeeper Assistant Bowral Charles Robert Wall Emma Spray [Spry] Stephens Merchant
Helena Jane Whiteman Spinster Camden Cumberland NSW Residing with her mother Camden Nelson Whiteman Eliza Furner Farmer
May 8, 1893 in the Wesleyan Church Camden By me William Wall
Both signed
Witnesses: Annie Mary Fletcher, Dudley Charles Wall

Death 3207/1894 WALL HELENA I - NELSON - ELIZA - BOWRAL

I have no trace of him after Helena died.

One source said he died in SA in 1919 so trying to prove it.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

WALL, James John 792 Trooper 1st Kitchener's Fighting Scouts WO127/12 Extract (Colin Roe) Roll

WALL, James John 792 Trooper 2nd Kitchener's Fighting Scouts WO127/12 Extract (Colin Roe) Roll

Wall James John 792 Trooper 1KFS Durban 18/12/00 transferred 29/4/01 2KFS
Wall James John 792 Trooper 2KFS Durban 30/4/01 transferred from 1KFS discharged 17/6/01



WALL, James John Bearer Natal Volunteer Ambulance Corps WO127/15 Extract (Graeme Ronaldson) Roll

WALL Jas Jno Rank: Br Enlisted 9.12.99 Discharged 12.3.00

 

[chaskent]

James John WALL born 1868 Greenwich, Kent, England - parents Charles Robert Wall & Emma Spry Stephens


Died South Africa 1919 ???

Thanks,

Dave

Are you still researching James John Wall ? I'm connected to this family.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello and welcome to the Forum.

Yes, still trying to confirm a death for the one born Greenwich 1868.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

There is a death in South Africa on 20 Dec 1924 for a James John Wall aged 56 born Essex ?

The marriage in 1906 in South Africa lists him as a bachelor. Signed: J. J. Wall
Two children born of that marriage.

NSW Marriage 2796/1893 WALL JAMES J - WHITEMAN HELENA J - CAMDEN

James John Wall - Bachelor Greenwich Kent England - Storekeeper Assistant Bowral - Charles Robert Wall Emma Spray [Spry] Stephens - Merchant
Helena Jane Whiteman Spinster Camden Cumberland NSW - Residing with her mother Camden - Nelson Whiteman Eliza Furner - Farmer
May 8, 1893 in the Wesleyan Church Camden By me William Wall
Parties signed:
Witnesses: Annie Mary Fletcher, Dudley Charles Wall

That's from a film in the Mitchell Library and being Wesleyan part of a set of films that are not permitted to be imaged. I therefore have no image and can't say how that James signed his name.


I can find no birth around 1868 in Essex for a James Wall.

 

[chaskent]

Yep, seen the marriage certificate that mentioned he is a bachelor, however the South African death certificate in 1924 mentions that he had a previous spouse (name not known, but deceased about 1890, which would roughly correlate with Helena Whiteman in Aus). Also the 1906 marriage cert is to a Hellena Brown (not Helena born Ryan as stated on death certs & probates..... however, it states she is a divorcee, so maybe she was born Ryan, married Brown and then married Wall. On her probate, her property was valued by R. Brown - so maybe there is a Ryan-Brown connection.

From the original Wall family in Greenwich, John James's brothers and uncles spread all over the world, so there would have been family connections in Aus as well as South Africa, which could explain a move to South Africa after the death of his wife/child.

Even though James John was born in Greenwich, the family had moved to Essex by the 1880's. His father Charles Robert Wall died in West Ham, Essex in 1885 and his mother (Emma Spry Stephens) was in Essex in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses.

His brothers:
Robert Frederick - moved to Worcestershire
William Denham - moved to Essex
Frank Henry Patrick - moved to Tonga, then NZ
Dudley Charles - moved to USA (but possibly Canada before that) ... and newspaper obituaries mention travels to Australia

and uncles:
William Wall - to New Zealand
Frank Wall - to New Zealand
James Edward Wall - to South Africa

still circumstantial evidence, but looking likely that these are the same James John Wall's.

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks.

Seems Dudley came to Australia just to witness the marriage. Maybe more.

Do you think it's the same one in the Boer War list?


When the Mitchell Library reopens I'll go back and check the film of that 1893 marriage and note the signature.

 

[DaveHam9]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/112360671?

I didn't have this in my tree. Just found it re death of son Frank.

 

[chaskent]

I haven't seen the Boer war list, and looks like I cant download a digital copy on TNA. It would certainly be a possibility - maybe he returned to England after his wife's death, then signed up ... or did that Boer war regiment include an Australian contingent allowing him to join direct from AUS?

That would certainly be interesting as his first cousin (Charles John Wall) was in South Africa at the time, and it has been claimed in a family history of the Van Rooyen family that he was involved, but on the Boer side (as a medical orderly in the Frankfort Vredeskommando, and in receipt of an ABO medal) .... I have my doubts as I've asked a military researcher in SA to investigate, and he was unable to find any evidence of his name on the lists or medal lists.

 

[DaveHam9]

I'll check which list the details on post #4 came from.

Not the Australian list
http://members.pcug.org.au/~croe/ozb/oz_boer.cgi

This list
http://members.pcug.org.au/~croe/sotq/sotq_abw.cgi

Wall James John 792 Trooper Served in 1st KFS. Joined Durban 18 Dec 00 transferred 29 Apr 01 2KFS
Source: Nominal roll in WO127
Wall James John 792 Trooper Served in 2nd KFS. Joined Durban 30 Apr 01 transferred from 1KFS Discharged 17 Jun 01
Source: Nominal roll in WO127

 

[chaskent]

Here's a clipping about Dudley Wall visiting Australia

 

[DaveHam9]

TNA
Searching WO 127 for Wall no hits. ??

 

[DaveHam9]

Birth 7314/1894 WALL FRANK D N - JAMES J - HELENA J - BOWRAL
Death 4001/1894 WALL FRANCIS N W - JAMES - HELENA - CAMDEN

Errors either by the informant for his death or by the BMD with initials in index entry or both.

Frank/Francis Dudley Nelson.