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James Wash WINTER -b 1855-Wellington

brentor boy

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#1
In 1871 JWW is listed as living in Clifton, Gloucestershire.

Would someone with access to the original record please provide me with full details of the household in which he was then living, and possible alternatives for his middle name. Thanks.
 

josie7644

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#2
Hello,

RG10; Piece: 2545; Folio: 27; Page: 46

Abel Miles 23 (Wheel Chairman)
Rosena Miles 21
Annie Rosena Miles 1
James Wash Winter 16 (Baker's Assistant) (Looks like Nash to me!)

Living at 6 Waterloo Place (Salutation Inn), Clifton.

Josie :)
 
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brentor boy

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#3
Many thanks, Josie.

His occupation as "baker's assistant" convinces me that this is the James M Winter, aged 29, who, in 1881, is living as a confectioner in Abergavenny. This James (Mark) Winter married in Bristol district in Sep Q 1873.
 

oznannie

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#4
Hi B.B
His birthplace has to be the clincher in Wales 1881 census.
We need to find him in 1861 yes?

ozn :)
Just to add, his little one Ada from 1881 is in 1901 census
a servant in Weston Super Mare
 
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brentor boy

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#5
I strongly suspect that at birth he was registered as Mark Winter, born Wellington 12 Aug 1851, twin brother of Josiah (aka Joseph). In 1861 the boys were living with their widowed mother, Ruth, in Wellington.

I am in the process of making as many on-line checks as possible to test this theory before purchasing a copy of the James Mark Winter/Fanny Gamlin marriage Bristol 1873. This should confirm (or otherwise) my deductions.

If I am proved correct, my next challenge will be to determine what happened to him and his family after 1881. In 1891 I can only find his youngest child, Ada Lillian, living with (presumably) her maternal grandfather, Thomas Gamlin, in Milverton, Somerset. Clearly emigration is a strong possibility, but why leave Ada behind?
 

oznannie

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#6
Looks like Fanny has remarried by 1891 census
Thomas is 14 and Alice 12 .New baby to Fanny.
Lots of alterations to names in Anc#
New hubby Charles Dames could be Davies.
Marriage Woolwich 1888 Fanny Winter to
Charles Davis (Free BMD)

ozn
 

oznannie

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#7
For our peeps here's the 1861 census
Norton's Row Wellington Somerset
Ruth 42 wid, Ann 20, Elizabeth 16 all wool weavers.
Albert 13 butchers boy, Josiah & Mark both 9 scholars.
all born Wellington
ozn :)

possibly Josiah is working as a servant in 1871 census error sent to Anc@@
birthplace incorrect
 
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brentor boy

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#8
Thanks, ozn, for your further offering.

My principal person of interest is Josiah/Joseph, my wife's great grandfather, and I have traced him more or less from cradle to grave - and yes, I did see him in 1871. My focus is now on his brother, Mark. Is it just coincidence that James Mark's first child was named Joseph?

Thanks for finding Fanny and children in 1891 - now I have to try and identify the entry for the death of James Mark on BMD. Firstly, though, I need to obtain a copy of his marriage certificate to ensure that I am on the right trail.
 

brentor boy

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#10
I have now received the certificate relating to the marriage of James Mark Winter and Fanny Gamlin in 1873. It shows the father of the groom to have been William Winter (deceased), farmer. The witnesses were from the bride's family.

"My" Mark Winter was the son of William Winter, weaver, who died before 1861. Date and place of birth match in both cases.

Before I crack open the champagne, can anyone find a James Winter, b 1851, Wellington Somerset, son of William Winter, farmer, in 1861, please? If no such individual is found, I think I can assume "most probably" Mark and James Mark are one and the same.
 

josie7644

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#11
Hello BB,

Just had a look on Freebmd and found three James Winter registrations in Wellington, Somerset. They are....

Q1 1850 vol 10 page 501
Q4 1850 vol 10 page 476
Q2 1852 vol 5c page 397

You will be pleased to hear that there are no others in 1851!

I'll have a look for them in 1861 and get back to you.

:) Josie
 

brentor boy

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#13
Thanks, Josie for your prompt response.

I have now approached this problem from just about every angle I can think of and each time I am drawn to the conclusion that the explanation that best fits all the known facts is that, when he left his parents home at some time after 1851, Mark Winter assumed the additional name of James. Unless anyone can suggest an alternative, I'm going to leave it at that.
 

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