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1841 has only one John Edwards in Brixham, a mariner aged 35, wife Mary aged 35, son William aged 5 all born this county.
There is another household at same address (King St):- Mary Jones, 70 and Elizabeth Jones 20, both born this county, possibly Mary's mother and sister ?
1851 they are still in Brixham but John must be at sea, just Mary Edwards, 47, fisherman's wife born Brixham, and son William, 14, fisherman born Brixham. So we have an exact age for Mary.
Looking for Mary Jones born Brixham ~ 1804 :- there is a Mary Jones bap Aug 12 1804 Brixham St Mary, d.o. William and Mary Jones. looks a good fit.
Same church 17 Dec 1820, bapt Ann Elizabeth Jones d.o. William, a mariner, and Mary. Is this the Elizabeth Jones with Mary Jones in the 1841 census? If so we have the father's occupation.
Looking in censuses to find exact age of John Edwards:- 1861 there is a John Edwards, age 58, widower, born Brixham, a mate on the Satham/Latham off Holyhead. If this is him then this looks a good fit :- John Edwards s.o. William and Mary was born Aug 23, bapt Sept 11 1803 Brixham St Mary.
A Mary Edwards aged 57 of Lower Brixham was buried at Brixham St Mary Aug 4 1860 so that is correct for John to be a widower in 1861.
Elaine
There is another household at same address (King St):- Mary Jones, 70 and Elizabeth Jones 20, both born this county, possibly Mary's mother and sister ?
1851 they are still in Brixham but John must be at sea, just Mary Edwards, 47, fisherman's wife born Brixham, and son William, 14, fisherman born Brixham. So we have an exact age for Mary.
Looking for Mary Jones born Brixham ~ 1804 :- there is a Mary Jones bap Aug 12 1804 Brixham St Mary, d.o. William and Mary Jones. looks a good fit.
Same church 17 Dec 1820, bapt Ann Elizabeth Jones d.o. William, a mariner, and Mary. Is this the Elizabeth Jones with Mary Jones in the 1841 census? If so we have the father's occupation.
Looking in censuses to find exact age of John Edwards:- 1861 there is a John Edwards, age 58, widower, born Brixham, a mate on the Satham/Latham off Holyhead. If this is him then this looks a good fit :- John Edwards s.o. William and Mary was born Aug 23, bapt Sept 11 1803 Brixham St Mary.
A Mary Edwards aged 57 of Lower Brixham was buried at Brixham St Mary Aug 4 1860 so that is correct for John to be a widower in 1861.
Elaine
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Thanks, Elaine.
I only had the transcript of the marriage [Dave L. found in another thread].
The transcription of the 1841 only has William aged 5, checking the image I saw he was with his parents. I never thought to check for others as there was a marker below William's name. Having rechecked the image, it is clear that Mary [70] and Elizabeth [20] are in the same household. Many thanks for that.
I'll check my tree later re other info, but it looks good.
Thanks, again..
Geoff
I only had the transcript of the marriage [Dave L. found in another thread].
The transcription of the 1841 only has William aged 5, checking the image I saw he was with his parents. I never thought to check for others as there was a marker below William's name. Having rechecked the image, it is clear that Mary [70] and Elizabeth [20] are in the same household. Many thanks for that.
I'll check my tree later re other info, but it looks good.
Thanks, again..
Geoff
Yeah, there's no evidence they were ever in Hull, son William was there by 1858 [mar. Sarah Chilson b. Brixham].
Pleasing that this side of the line is much clearer.
The other side is potentially blocked at George Thomas and Mary Elizabeth Petherbridge m. 1849 Hull. No other details for George and Mary E's parents unconfirmed.
HERE and HERE
Geoff
Pleasing that this side of the line is much clearer.
The other side is potentially blocked at George Thomas and Mary Elizabeth Petherbridge m. 1849 Hull. No other details for George and Mary E's parents unconfirmed.
HERE and HERE
Geoff
I've had a good search for George Thomas but got nowhere, amazing that he was away from home for every census!
His marriage gives his father as James but that is no help.
Two points that may still be worth looking at :-
In 1871 Mary has a lodger, Edward Wails, aged 32, fisherman born Ramsgate. could he be a relative?
Mary's youngest son, born 1870 is given as Millian in the 1871 census then Milan in 1901 and 1911. His son born 1900 is also called Milan. Is this a family name or a clue to a family surname?
Elaine
His marriage gives his father as James but that is no help.
Two points that may still be worth looking at :-
In 1871 Mary has a lodger, Edward Wails, aged 32, fisherman born Ramsgate. could he be a relative?
Mary's youngest son, born 1870 is given as Millian in the 1871 census then Milan in 1901 and 1911. His son born 1900 is also called Milan. Is this a family name or a clue to a family surname?
Elaine
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Thanks, Elaine.
Yeah, George is a real mystery, nothing apart from his marriage, even that only has father = James on the cert. Am slowly picking up snippets where I am finding some male relatives at sea together, but none so far with George
I've been in contact with a guy who is an admin on the Hull Trawler website HERE, he says "Mary states her husband is a Skipper in 1851" I can't find any evidence of that. He also says he's checked the 1861 census of Hull Vessels and not found George there. He suggests that he may be fishing from another port
I can only find the transcription of the 1851 census and not the image, on Anc. they appear to have got the image pages mixed up, unless it's me There should also be a Nicholas Petherbridge b. 1839 Ramsgate apprentice, on the same page [1]. Possibly a brother of Mary
The Millan/Millian also a bit of a mystery, Mary is a widow by 1871, so one can only put 2 and 2 together
Once I have a bit more info on them I'll look at cert's, though in view of the circumstances I wouldn't be hopeful.
Thanks again for looking.
Geoff
Yeah, George is a real mystery, nothing apart from his marriage, even that only has father = James on the cert. Am slowly picking up snippets where I am finding some male relatives at sea together, but none so far with George
I've been in contact with a guy who is an admin on the Hull Trawler website HERE, he says "Mary states her husband is a Skipper in 1851" I can't find any evidence of that. He also says he's checked the 1861 census of Hull Vessels and not found George there. He suggests that he may be fishing from another port
I can only find the transcription of the 1851 census and not the image, on Anc. they appear to have got the image pages mixed up, unless it's me
There should also be a Nicholas Petherbridge b. 1839 Ramsgate apprentice, on the same page [1]. Possibly a brother of Mary The Millan/Millian also a bit of a mystery, Mary is a widow by 1871, so one can only put 2 and 2 together
Once I have a bit more info on them I'll look at cert's, though in view of the circumstances I wouldn't be hopeful.
Thanks again for looking.
Geoff
There should also be a Nicholas Petherbridge b. 1839 Ramsgate apprentice, on the same page [1]. Possibly a brother of Mary
Nicholas John Petherbridge
Marital Status: Single
Marriage Date: 16 Jan 1864
Marriage Place: Burnham, Buckingham, England
Father: Nicholas Petherbridge
Spouse: Caroline Bradley
FHL Film Number: 1967040
Reference ID: 327 page 164
He has moved around a fair bit, he was a shoe maker and can be found in 1861/71.
Geof
re post #7, yes there is a problem with the 1851 census image on Anc but I have looked at it on FMP.
Nicholas Petherbridge is with the Jarman's next door but one to Mary. He is a shoemakers apprentice to Richard Jarman.
As for Mary saying her husband is a skipper, it definitely doesn't say that. She says "fisherman's (man) wife". The enumerator seems to have been very particular and usually puts extra information in brackets such as master, journeyman etc. In this case it is clearly "man" i.e. a normal crew member. This form appears for several of the wives in the area.
FMP has seaman's tickets but there are a lot called George Thomas. There was one based at Scarborough but I was looking for Hull so ignored it. Will have another look.
Elaine
Nicholas Petherbridge is with the Jarman's next door but one to Mary. He is a shoemakers apprentice to Richard Jarman.
As for Mary saying her husband is a skipper, it definitely doesn't say that. She says "fisherman's (man) wife". The enumerator seems to have been very particular and usually puts extra information in brackets such as master, journeyman etc. In this case it is clearly "man" i.e. a normal crew member. This form appears for several of the wives in the area.
FMP has seaman's tickets but there are a lot called George Thomas. There was one based at Scarborough but I was looking for Hull so ignored it. Will have another look.
Elaine
Going round in circles with this family ! not sure whether you have noticed this, apologies if it has already been mentioned :-
Elizabeth, d.o. Mary & George Thomas born in Hull ~ July 1850, registered as Elizabeth Peram Thomas
Bapt. May 20 1849 Brixham Elizabeth Perham Petherbridge, d.o. John & Susan (mariner)
Bapt Nov 25 1849 Brixham Elizabeth Perham Petherbridge d.o. Henry & Elizabeth (mariner)
Elizabeth Petherbridge age 4 months bur Brixham Feb 1850. Can't find her parents in census to check age but there was a Henry Petherbridge bapt Brixton Nov 9 1826 s.o. Henry & Elizabeth (fisherman)
John & Susan Petherbridge were in Hull 1851 (indexed Petherbug), he was 27, born Brixham. They had a daughter Susannah Alice aged 4 born Ramsgate, but they baptised her in Brixham July 1847 so they were not in Ramsgate long.
John Petherbridge was bapt Brixham Aug 22 1824, s.o. Henry & Elizabeth(mariner)
I think you have bapt Ramsgate St George, 3 May 1829, Mary Elizabeth d.o. Henry & Elizabeth Petherbridge, (fisherman)
For Henry, John and Mary to all have children called Elizabeth Perham in 1849/50 seems to confirm that the three of them were siblings and their mother was the Elizabeth Perrem who married Henry Petherbridge 25 April 1824 at Brixham.
Elaine
Elizabeth, d.o. Mary & George Thomas born in Hull ~ July 1850, registered as Elizabeth Peram Thomas
Bapt. May 20 1849 Brixham Elizabeth Perham Petherbridge, d.o. John & Susan (mariner)
Bapt Nov 25 1849 Brixham Elizabeth Perham Petherbridge d.o. Henry & Elizabeth (mariner)
Elizabeth Petherbridge age 4 months bur Brixham Feb 1850. Can't find her parents in census to check age but there was a Henry Petherbridge bapt Brixton Nov 9 1826 s.o. Henry & Elizabeth (fisherman)
John & Susan Petherbridge were in Hull 1851 (indexed Petherbug), he was 27, born Brixham. They had a daughter Susannah Alice aged 4 born Ramsgate, but they baptised her in Brixham July 1847 so they were not in Ramsgate long.
John Petherbridge was bapt Brixham Aug 22 1824, s.o. Henry & Elizabeth(mariner)
I think you have bapt Ramsgate St George, 3 May 1829, Mary Elizabeth d.o. Henry & Elizabeth Petherbridge, (fisherman)
For Henry, John and Mary to all have children called Elizabeth Perham in 1849/50 seems to confirm that the three of them were siblings and their mother was the Elizabeth Perrem who married Henry Petherbridge 25 April 1824 at Brixham.
Elaine
Thanks again, Elaine.
I have some of that, I hadn't noticed those middle names before.. I haven't found Henry & Elizabeth [Mary Elizabeth's parents] after 1841.
So the Petherbridge = Perrim mar. is looking good..
Not surprised you're going round in circles, in those early years they were back and forth between Brixham and Ramsgate, some travelling to Hull
Geoff
I have some of that, I hadn't noticed those middle names before.. I haven't found Henry & Elizabeth [Mary Elizabeth's parents] after 1841.
So the Petherbridge = Perrim mar. is looking good..
Not surprised you're going round in circles, in those early years they were back and forth between Brixham and Ramsgate, some travelling to Hull
Geoff
Looks good but no way of proving whether it is correct !:-
Seaman's ticket 1845 no. 73792
George Thomas aged 22, born 29 Jan 1823
born Newcastle, Northumberland
height, 5ft 5in. Complexion dark; hair dark brown; eyes grey; marks none
first went to sea as apprentice in 1835
can write
served in Royal Navy ? No
when unemployed resides in Hull
Issued at Hull 1st Jan 1845
Need to find a Thomas with these birth details & father James, no luck so far!
Elaine
Seaman's ticket 1845 no. 73792
George Thomas aged 22, born 29 Jan 1823
born Newcastle, Northumberland
height, 5ft 5in. Complexion dark; hair dark brown; eyes grey; marks none
first went to sea as apprentice in 1835
can write
served in Royal Navy ? No
when unemployed resides in Hull
Issued at Hull 1st Jan 1845
Need to find a Thomas with these birth details & father James, no luck so far!
Elaine
This fits for age, occ and PoB, but it's the wrong one..
1851
Civil Parish: Sculcoates
County: Yorkshire
RD: Sculcoates
Sub-RD: East Sculcoates
ED: 8; Piece: 2361; Folio: 163; Page: 19
George Thomas 28 [b. Newcatle. Seaman]
Mary A Thomas 24 [b. Hull]
John Thomas 4
Frederick Thomas 2
Mary E Thomas 6 Mo
Geoff
1851
Civil Parish: Sculcoates
County: Yorkshire
RD: Sculcoates
Sub-RD: East Sculcoates
ED: 8; Piece: 2361; Folio: 163; Page: 19
George Thomas 28 [b. Newcatle. Seaman]
Mary A Thomas 24 [b. Hull]
John Thomas 4
Frederick Thomas 2
Mary E Thomas 6 Mo
Geoff
Looking at my tree and notes, I have followed the direct line mainly and any siblings etc., details have been taken from censuses only, births/bap's. have not been followed up :'(
Main line, s/o George and Mary E:
Birth Reg.
Q2 1858
THOMAS Henry Petherbridge
Hull
9d 204
Fancy overlooking that; those sibling middle names are gold dust
Geoff
:'(Main line, s/o George and Mary E:
Birth Reg.
Q2 1858
THOMAS Henry Petherbridge
Hull
9d 204
Fancy overlooking that; those sibling middle names are gold dust
Geoff
Shame about the wrong seaman's ticket but this looks interesting :-
The second daughter of George and Mary was called Mary Roach Thomas b 1856. Was she named for George's mother ??
A Mary Roach married James Thomas 21 Oct 1825, Berkeley Glos. and on 4 June 1826 they baptised a son George there. James was a farmer so no fishing link but Berkeley is on the Severn estuary so not far from the sea. Worth looking at anyway.
James & Mary had 3 other sons at Berkeley, the second being William Roach Thomas b 1828 so a history of using Mary's maiden name. All the sons except George were at home in Berkeley with their parents in 1841, had George died or left home?
Elaine
The second daughter of George and Mary was called Mary Roach Thomas b 1856. Was she named for George's mother ??
A Mary Roach married James Thomas 21 Oct 1825, Berkeley Glos. and on 4 June 1826 they baptised a son George there. James was a farmer so no fishing link but Berkeley is on the Severn estuary so not far from the sea. Worth looking at anyway.
James & Mary had 3 other sons at Berkeley, the second being William Roach Thomas b 1828 so a history of using Mary's maiden name. All the sons except George were at home in Berkeley with their parents in 1841, had George died or left home?
Elaine
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