John SANDERSON

[horse]

Would we be able to get more on his court marshal, somehow?

 

[horse]

Would this preclude the Cockermouth John Sanderson?

Record Summary
Scope and content
JOHN SANDERSON
Born COCKERMOUTH, Cumberland
Served in Royal Artillery
Discharged aged 72
Covering dates 1793-1848
Held by
The National Archives, Kew
Legal status Public Record(s)
Language English

 

[horse]

This would preclude the Spotland John Sanderson as he would have been only 2y at most when he enlisted.

Record Summary
Scope and content
JOHN SANDERSON.
Born SPOTLAND, Lancashire.
Served in 1st Dragoons; 7th Royal Veteran Battalion.
Discharged aged [Not Known].
Covering dates give year of enlistment to year of discharge.
Kilmainham Reference: A15277.
See folio 44.
Covering dates 1798-1821
Held by
The National Archives, Kew
Legal status Public Record(s)
Language English

 

[horse]

Those can be found TNA:

WO 97/1260/29

WO 119/52/37

Geoff

 

[DaveHam9]

Royal Dragoons

Capt. Clark's No 8 or G

pp.46 & 47

Capt. Alex K (Kimberly ? ) Clarke
Lieut.
Lieut.
Cornet
Troop S. M. Robert Sanderson

31 John Sanderson

No other info.

I think they are both ruled out given the dates of enlistment. TNA says the date range is Enlistment to Discharge.

 

[horse]

I am wondering if he's been systematically blanked out due to court martial.. cannot find anything conclusive from leaving army to his conviction

 

[DaveHam9]

I don't know Geoff.

I would imagine his name was on a muster roll at some time.

I've seen some with notes saying in hospital or on leave or died in battle but none saying in gaol or awaiting court martial etc...

 

[horse]

Well, surely that is him being transported..

 

[horse]

There is something we are missing or something not showing up or something not right with the authorities

Someone who has been in the army has to have credentials somewhere..

Geoff

 

[DaveHam9]

We have missed something but I have no idea what.

One says he was in 2nd Battalion, Grenadier Guards but most trees don't mention that.

Don't know where that bit was found.

2nd & 3rd Battalions at Waterloo - HERE

Name: John Sanderson
Age: 28
Date of Conviction: 23 Oct 1823
Place of Conviction: Portman Street Barracks

I realise it's Old Bailey:

Old Bailey Proceedings, 10th September 1823.
...
WILLIAM JESSOP . I am a private in the third company of the second battalion of the first regiment of Guards. We marched into Portman-street barracks one Wednesday

...
WILLIAM BATES . I am a private in the third company of the second battalion of the first Guards. I was with Jessop about seven o'clock in the evening we marched out of Portman barracks

I wonder the author of the tree has assumed that because the 2nd Battalion of 1st Reg (Grenadier) Guards was stationed there John had to be one of them. ???

 

[DaveHam9]

Henry Beaney, one of 200 convicts transported on the Surrey, 13 July 1829
Crime: -
Convicted at: Portman Street Barracks Court Martial
Sentence term: 14 years
Ship: Surrey
Departure date: 13th July, 1829
Arrival date: 13th March, 1830
Place of arrival Van Diemen's Land
Passenger manifest Travelled with 199 other convicts


Samuel Sparks
Date Tried: Court Martial, Portman Street Barracks, January 1833
Transported: Emperor Alexander

 

[gibbo]

Dave i dont know if this is of any help or not but most of the ones court martialed mentioned in the link are in the Convict transportation registers [HO 11]

http://www.connectedhistories.org/Search_results.aspx?pc=London&dtf=1839-01-01&dtt=1900-12-31&sr=cr

 

[gibbo]

There was another fella who was convicted at Portman Street Barracks Court Martial on the same ship as John Sanderson. Dont think it will help us any tho

http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/brett/thomas/109042

 

[DaveHam9]

Yes, gibbo, that's where I found them.

Just wondering if John was an odd one out or if these others are also missing from TNA as if records have been purged because of court martial.

I've not had a look yet for those two.

Also, I've not yet checked newspapers for October 1823.

 

[DaveHam9]

There was another fella who was convicted at Portman Street Barracks Court Martial on the same ship as John Sanderson. Dont think it will help us any tho

http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/brett/thomas/109042

Thanks. He might be a better one to check in TNA and see if his records are also missing.


I can't find Thomas BRETT either on TNA. It probably means that the various WO 100/?? series are not yet in the on-line catalogue.

 

[DaveHam9]

4 Convicts Convicted of Stricking a superior officer in the army - HERE


52 Convicts Convicted of Desertion from army

9 Convicts Convicted of Insubordination

2 Convicts Convicted of Violence to a surperior officer

1 Convict Convicted of Desertion and striking an officer

20 Convicts Convicted of Unknown

I can't see where John is listed and it's not under 'Unknown' or any relating to the army.

 

[DaveHam9]

I can't find any mention of the court martial of BRETT and SANDERSON in the newspapers. Just mention of some Army ones in Ireland and Jamaica and Naval ones in England.

 

[DaveHam9]

No luck with John on either site.

One of the trees has this transcription (not validated yet).
"Given the opportunity, I'd do it again!" when asked by his court marshall whether he had anything to say in defence of a charge of assaulting an officer, were the words which booked Waterloo veteran, Private John Sanderson, a passage to New South Wales for an extended stay.

 

[MikeG]

I googled the name John Sanderson and came here!! But why?......

My wife was clearing out the house of her step mum and came across an old box in the attic she was going to dump, I told her it had a secret compartment; I opened this and it had 4 gold 1/2 sovereigns and John Sanderson’s Waterloo medal with his inscription on the outside referring to 1st RO Royal Dragoon’s.

Reading the thread above it appears as is if a brick wall has been reached......is there anymore interest or information please?

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Mike and welcome to the Forum.


Interest, yes.

It's been some time so something new might turn up so I'll have another look.

Dave