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John SANDERSON

Hello - late to the party and also came here via Google. I'm looking into John Sanderson from Nottinghamshire and it seems he was court-martialed for desertion and "losing his necessaries" (a researcher on another forum just pointed me in the direction of Fold3 where the record is for October 1823, shortly before he was sent on the ship to Oz). Was anything conclusive ever reached about John's parentage? Trees on Ancestry seem to assume Matthew and Frances (he had a son called Matthias as already established further back in the thread) and also a later daughter called Frances (Fanny). I still can't find a record of his time in the army though and the transcription on the court martial seems to read "Grand Guards 2 Bd" which to me is probably Grenadier Guards, 2nd Batallion??
 
PS there was also another John and Elizabeth Sanderson in Mansfield in 1841 near the workhouse that Matthias the alleged son was born.. I'm wondering if with no proof of who John Sanderson actually was, this couple have perhaps been mistaken for him on the multiple trees online?
 
Hello and welcome to the Forum.

I have no access so don't look at trees online. People tend to copy stuff that has no sources.

I have nothing new so no, parentage not confirmed.

Dave
 
Hello and welcome to the Forum.

I have no access so don't look at trees online. People tend to copy stuff that has no sources.

I have nothing new so no, parentage not confirmed.

Dave

Hi, and thank you. Yes I agree about the online trees and looking at them all it does appear to be one giant Chinese Whispers game. There are numerous references to John Sanderson stating he punched an officer (probably made him sound more heroic than "desertion") and apart from his Freedom certificate in 1839 that states he was from Nottinghamshire, there's not much else to make the leap to Matthew and Frances as his parents or Elizabeth Dutton as his first wife. There's also another child called John born to the same parents, John and Elizabeth, in Mansfield 1828 but John Snr had already left for Australia so I am actually doubting they are the correct couple. I'm trying to find the petition to the governor for his first wife to come and join him as otherwise I think that "fact" can be added to the list of made up and assumed stuff too.
 
A few records have Nottingham.

Saunderson (Sanderson) John 'Countess of Harcourt' 1824
1831 5 April - SG
Age 33. Absconded from George Forbes. Charged with robbery

Saunderson (Sanderson) John 'Countess of Harcourt' 1824
1832 21 March Hunter River 1832 GG
Soldier and Gardener aged 36. Tried Nottingham. 5' 11 1/4". Light hazle eyes, brown hair, brown much pock pitted compl. Absconded from George Forbes.


I've not heard of the petition to the governor.
 
Very little re convicts to NSW is on-line. There is a bit more on films at State Library currently closed.

All the records are held by NSW Archives also closed - which is about 70 km and a bus, train, bus journey of 2 hours for me to get there when it reopens. I have over 50 convicts in my tree and I'm slowly making a list of what I need to look up when I do go there. Can't say when though.
They both may reopen on 1 June but it won't be easy travelling on public transport with 3 out of every 4 seats vacant.
 
I had no idea re the petition or I had forgotten. This bit was not in my tree but is now.

Colonial Secretary Index is on-line.

SAUNDERSON, John. Per "Countess of Harcourt", 1824
1825 Servant to George Forbes of Minto.
Petition for free passage for his wife Elizabeth & two children (Fiche 3287; 4/1112.1A pp.318-21)

Film 1112.1A at the NSW Archives Reading Room.
 
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I had no idea re the petition or I had forgotten. This bit was not in my tree but is now.

Colonial Secretary Index is on-line.

SAUNDERSON, John. Per "Countess of Harcourt", 1824
1825 Servant to George Forbes of Minto.
Petition for free passage for his wife Elizabeth & two children (Fiche 3287; 4/1112.1A pp.318-21)

Film 1112.1A at the NSW Archives Reading Room.

Oh that's an awesome find, thank you for sharing. I see he's back to being "Saunderson" again....
 
Names of convicts as well as the spelling of the arrival vessel vary a lot in the records. H may or may not have varied his name over the years although some clearly do. It may just be the spelling in a particular record that is different.
 
His COF gives almost the same details as in your post #1, except the eyes are described as grey to light hazel. I suspect Nottingham probably refers to Nottinghamshire also confirmed in the COF, assuming the correct John Sanderson. There doesn't appear to be any of the others that fit so well. Saunderson may be an option, but I've not found anything yet.

New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1827-1867
Name: John Sanderson
Birth Year: 1796
Native Place: Nottinghamshire, England
Certificate Date: 14 Oct 1839
Arrival Year: 1824
Vessel: Countess of Harcourt

This is similar to the finds of Barbara and Gibbo...
UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949
Name: John Sanderson
Campaign or Service: Battle of Waterloo
Service Date: 1815
Service Location: Belgium
Regiment or Unit Name: M Clarks Troop

A few trees suggest this is his first marriage..
Pallot's Marriage Index for England: 1780 - 1837
Name: John Sanderson
Spouse: Elizabeth Dutton
Marriage Date: 1820
Parish: Female Mansf Lo Nts 13

Then it gets silly, I can't find the marriage on FS, but a tree suggests his first 2 children before his conviction are Jonathan and Matthias, both b. Mansfield, which would fit with the marriage, but the surname is Saunderson :confused:

Geoff
Hi Geoff, I believe I am a descendant of John Sanderson (b1796) first son Jonathan (b1820 in Mansfield Woodhouse, Notts.) His 2nd Son before being transported to Australia was Mathias b1821 but he died 1825. Sanderson/Saunderson often interchangeable. John Sandersons father was also a Mathias who married Frances Baguley on 25 September 1796 in Nottingham, it is his parents I am looking back and come to a halt on - if you have any clues since you posted this message 10 years ago?! Thanks John Sanderson
 
Hello and welcome to the Forum.

'Horse' is no longer an active member so I doubt he will see your post.

I have the family in my tree hence this topic but I'm also stuck.

Dave
 
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