Knight-Coleman

[robert shaw]

hi again!

im requesting a little help again.

i cannot find a marriage for James Knight and Ellen Coleman , sometime between 1836 and 1847. could be in Derby, Leeds or Dover! or anywhere else for that matter. ive had no luck on the igi nor find my past, but tbh the results are so plentiful i might have missed 'the' one.

they appear on the census's in Derby from 1851 onwards, but their years of birth vary quite a bit and their places of birth (james is sussex, dover and derby!) (ellens is usually leeds, but despite knowing her mothers name - jane - i cannot pin down her birth either). any additional info would be most welcome, thanks

ps its likely to be after 1841 as i cannot identify them as being together on any census) (first child born in 1846 or 7)

 

[Ladybird1300]

Hi Robert


Couldn't find a registered marriage for an Ellen Coleman anywhere to a James Knight, from 1837 to 1849. Only found one to an Edward Edling Knight in the City of London


Amanda

 

[robert shaw]

Hi Robert


Couldn't find a registered marriage for an Ellen Coleman anywhere to a James Knight, from 1837 to 1849. Only found one to an Edward Edling Knight in the City of London


Amanda

thats frustrating as its not too long ago! i know or believe ellens surname to be coleman because on the 1851 census they have a jane coleman, mother in law (relationship to the head). as there no other adults there, it must be ellens mother?

but i cannot find a birth for ellen coleman in leeds for the years she suggested she was born. yet her census returns are constant for her birth in leeds.

thanks anyway

 

[stockpot]

No luck I'm afraid!

Jane Coleman must be the mother of Ellen but Coleman could be her name from a second marriage so Ellen may not have been born Ellen Coleman.

Interesting that James gives his place of birth different each census. In 1881 he says born Canterbury 1815. In 1840 there was a James Knight, born Canterbury 1815, who deserted from the Royal Artillery. Could be that this was him and after that he did not want to be identified. Then by 1881 he thought he was safe to put the truth ?

Elaine

 

[robert shaw]

No luck I'm afraid!

Jane Coleman must be the mother of Ellen but Coleman could be her name from a second marriage so Ellen may not have been born Ellen Coleman.

Interesting that James gives his place of birth different each census. In 1881 he says born Canterbury 1815. In 1840 there was a James Knight, born Canterbury 1815, who deserted from the Royal Artillery. Could be that this was him and after that he did not want to be identified. Then by 1881 he thought he was safe to put the truth ?

Elaine

good point! my mum says there was a mystery in her family, that someone had run away to join the army, but never told the truth to anyone but his wife - who took the secret to the grave.

where did you find that out about the desertion?

thanks a lot

 

[stockpot]

Interesting that there seems to have been a family story about this man after all this time.

The desertion was on FMP, searching under:- military, regimental & service records for James Knight born 1817 +- 10 yrs. It was about 13th in the list of results.

I have just checked on the National Archive site, you can order a copy of his army record, either to be digitised and sent to your computer or just posted. (I got a naval record from them some time ago and it was quite cheap) :-

The details are:- Reference: WO 69/9/83
Description: Statements of Service, Royal Horse Artillery Volume 3 Numbers 565 to 1013.
This entry appears on opening 84; this number is imprinted at the top right of each opening.
Soldier's Number 410: James KNIGHT. Born St George, Canterbury, Kent. Enlisted 1832 aged 17 years. Discharged 1840. Discharge reason: Deserted.

Elaine

 

[robert shaw]

Interesting that there seems to have been a family story about this man after all this time.

The desertion was on FMP, searching under:- military, regimental & service records for James Knight born 1817 +- 10 yrs. It was about 13th in the list of results.

I have just checked on the National Archive site, you can order a copy of his army record, either to be digitised and sent to your computer or just posted. (I got a naval record from them some time ago and it was quite cheap) :-

The details are:- Reference: WO 69/9/83
Description: Statements of Service, Royal Horse Artillery Volume 3 Numbers 565 to 1013.
This entry appears on opening 84; this number is imprinted at the top right of each opening.
Soldier's Number 410: James KNIGHT. Born St George, Canterbury, Kent. Enlisted 1832 aged 17 years. Discharged 1840. Discharge reason: Deserted.

Elaine

thanks for that! my mum will be pleased.

yeah my mum heard the story when she was a child. james/ellen were her great great grandparents so it spans 4 generations

hmmm.... i wonder if theres a link... james/ellens daughter - eliza, 1854 derby, married james howe in derby 1872. i cant find out anything about james howe except that he supposed to have come from kent.

 

[stockpot]

No, sorry, I can't find James Howe at all prior to his marriage. he gives his father as William on his marriage cert but that doesn't help. I wondered whether William & James had both been in the army and the family were abroad at each census but I can't find anything to support that and gas fitter is not a trade you'd learn in the army.
Sorry!
Elaine

 

[robert shaw]

No, sorry, I can't find James Howe at all prior to his marriage. he gives his father as William on his marriage cert but that doesn't help. I wondered whether William & James had both been in the army and the family were abroad at each census but I can't find anything to support that and gas fitter is not a trade you'd learn in the army.
Sorry!
Elaine

yeah i think he is a genuine dead end , he was my mothers great grandfather which makes it a pity. ive got back to the late 1500's on other lines, and most go back the the early 1700's at least - so to 'go out' in the mid 1800's is frustrating.

i too cannot find any james son of william howe anywhere let alone kent where they supposed to be from.

 

[robert shaw]

yep it looks likely that james knight was the one born in canterbury in 1815...

father james, mother ann. found them nearby on the census, found their marriage...

both throwing up problems, but for different reasons!

father james knight came from scotland, born (asccording to the consistent census) c 1781. mother ann craven born c 1781 too and came from hampshire.

trouble is..... theres several james knights born in east lothian c 1781.
.............. and theres 0 ann cravens born in hampshire anytime like 1781!!!

this is barmy! lots of possibilities for one, no possibilities for another!